Combine RME ADI DAC 2 with Minidsp DDRC-24?

[CMB]

Hello to all,
I would like to apply better room correction on my 2.1 set-up. May I ask for your educated thoughts please?
My technical skills are limited and I wondered if it would be any good (or harm) to add a Minidsp DDRC-24 after the (fantastic) RME ADI DAC?

I used REW to mesure the room respons and applied first the calculated EQ corrections to 20-20K (using the minidsp 96K settings for the RME). I felt loosing to much «live». Then I applied, EQ only for 20-500Hz. Which I prefer so far. However, I think Dirac could maybe succeed any better than me (bass feels sometimes missing or to loud or its resonating...).

For more understanding here is my set-up :
I use a Mac-Mini/Audirvana/RME ADI DAC 2.

From there the signal goes first with RCA/In into a subwoofer (Piega P sub 4). From the Sub (with variable low pass currently set at 80Hz) the signal goes RCA/out into a Line Magnetic 845 Tube-Amp to drive my 2 standspeakers (Piega P4 xl MK2). I choosed this path in order to help the amp to drive the standspeakers (without the lows).

Room is 4m x 8m partially open to the kitchen which is 4m x 4m.

I thought to use the RCA analog-in at the Minidsp and from there going in parallel into the sub and the 2 speakers.

Thank you for any opinions.

 

[Davelemi]

I've added the DDRC-24 in 2 of my setups after the DAC. Yes, it's taking analogue converting to digital and back to analogue, but to my ears I can't hear any degradation. What I do hear is the incredible improvement from Dirac live which is easy to hear by switching Dirac on and off with the remote. My only issue with your set up is you have a great DAC and from a measurement standpoint, not what you can actually hear, you're not getting your moneys worth sending it's analogue to the MiniDSP.

 

[Ron Texas]

Either get a software room correction solution that runs on your Mac or an all digital box to go between your Mac and your DAC like the DDRC-22D. The DDRC-24 has a DAC in it, essentially making your RME ADI redundant.

 

[CMB]

Thank you both for your kind answers to my "problem". This hobby is such a headache

I understand your points - these were also the issues I was wondering about, but was not sure if the minidsp does convert the analog back and forward. So this is again a false good idea. I think, I ll check the Dirac software solution instead.

Thank you again.

 

[Buddelpudding]

I am also wondering about how to add REQ to my RME ADI DAC. Theoretically the best hardware solution I found so far is the Minidsp SHD studio. It's fully digital, includes USB and network capabilities, so can act as a USBbridge and/or streamer as well. If only it wasn't so pricey...
A software solution would definitely be easier and cheaper IMO.

 

[Davelemi]

A software solution that integrated with Roon would be much appreciated!

 

[Buddelpudding]

Doesn't Roon have its own REQ solution already integrated?

 

[Davelemi]

Doesn't Roon have its own REQ solution already integrated?

Yes, and convolution too but it's not as good as Dirac.

 

[CMB]

I just saw that Dirac Live "Studio" (the software version) proposes a trial period of 14 days.
It seems to sell at around EUR 300.
It says plugin version 1.0 and I hope this is the same as version 2.0 in the "home" version.
I will check that out within the next days.

 

[QMuse]

Hello to all,
I would like to apply better room correction on my 2.1 set-up. May I ask for your educated thoughts please?
My technical skills are limited and I wondered if it would be any good (or harm) to add a Minidsp DDRC-24 after the (fantastic) RME ADI DAC?

I used REW to mesure the room respons and applied first the calculated EQ corrections to 20-20K (using the minidsp 96K settings for the RME). I felt loosing to much «live». Then I applied, EQ only for 20-500Hz. Which I prefer so far. However, I think Dirac could maybe succeed any better than me (bass feels sometimes missing or to loud or its resonating...).

Thank you for any opinions.

I suggest you measure response after correction for each scenario you mentinoned as giving opinion only based on your description is practically impossible.

 

[QMuse]

Yes, and convolution too but it's not as good as Dirac.

Those two simply cannot be compared: Roon offers convolution engine to process fitlers created by other tools while Dirac is a complete room EQ solution which includes filter generation module and convoltuion engine to process it's won filters.

Finalr result of room EQ depends on accuraccy of the fitlers so, assuming you use some tool to build more accurate filters tha Dirac would make and load them into Roon's convolution engine you will end up with a better result. If fitlers are less acurate than Dirac you will end up with worse result.

 

[Worth Davis]

Get an SHD - has the same dac as the RME. I doubt you can tell the difference between the SHD and RME unless you are looking for a very specific tweak feature that only one has. I believe you can go Source to REM to Minidsp 2x4HD analog and you will love it as well. PS I have these setups at home, speakig from experience not internet stories.

 

[Worth Davis]

My opinion (in the estimated 10 dedicated rooms I have done) is that correctly done and implemented convolution files or filters is 50% of what you can get out of Dirac (or others). If you want more than you need to move to Dirac or another world class correction system.

 

[QMuse]

My opinion (in the estimated 10 dedicated rooms I have done) is that correctly done and implemented convolution files or filters is 50% of what you can get out of Dirac (or others). If you want more than you need to move to Dirac or another world class correction system.

It is not a question of opinion, but of a DSP related mathematics. Dirac sin't doing any magic, it uses a combination of IIR and FIR filters to correct response in frequency and time domain. It is something you can do mannualy with rePhase, load the filters in Roon and you will get a better result if your filters were more accurate than Diracs. Which is not so hard to do as Dirac makes only 9 sweeps per channel from LP while, if doing filters mannualy, you can do various measurements at LP and nierfield to ger better picture of the soundfield at LP you need to correct.

There is also a veil of mistery regarding time-domain correction that automatic tools like Dirac are doing. The truth is hoever they merely do passive XO phase compensation and some mild phase correction to get excess phaseflatter and closer to 0. The truth is also that all these changes are barely audible while even a simple frequency response correction done with PEQ fitelrs generated by REW and loaded in Roon will result in a very noticable improvement in SQ.

 

[Worth Davis]

It is not a question of opinion, but of a DSP related mathematics. Dirac sin't doing any magic, it uses a combination of IIR and FIR filters to correct response in frequency and time domain. It is something you can do mannualy with rePhase, load the filters in Roon and you will get a better result if your filters were more accurate than Diracs. Which is not so hard to do as Dirac makes only 9 sweeps per channel from LP while, if doing filters mannualy, you can do various measurements at LP and nierfield to ger better picture of the soundfield at LP you need to correct.

There is also a veil of mistery regarding time-domain correction that automatic tools like Dirac are doing. The truth is hoever they merely do passive XO phase compensation and some mild phase correction to get excess phaseflatter and closer to 0. The truth is also that all these changes are barely audible while even a simple frequency response correction done with PEQ fitelrs generated by REW and loaded in Roon will result in a very noticable improvement in SQ.

my counter point is in the time it took you to write this I can run Dirac and already put the umik back in the box. I’m sure you can do a better job with more tools and education than I have.

 

[QMuse]

my counter point is in the time it took you to write this I can run Dirac and already put the umik back in the box. I’m sure you can do a better job with more tools and education than I have.

Actually, if you want to do it right, you can't. It will take you app 30 minutes while it'll take me app 45. And then I will start thinking on some good ways to spend $600 that I just saved.

 

[CMB]

It would have been such a pleasure here to give you here feedback about my Dirac software experiment.
I subscribed the 14 day trial.
And... spent the whole afternoon trying to make it work with Audirvana.

Besides the difficulty to download and install. It never worked.
The farest it went was the mesure process where it swiped 4 time in a row but the last swip had no sound , so it bugged.
Asking to check the speaker configuration (only 2!?!).

After further tries, now, it is not even able to calibrate the volume anymore.
Or it does not recognize the Dirac live processor, or it is behaving unsynch, or internal error or it doesn't recognize the mic anymore or...

I installed everything 3 times and rebooted countless time.
So far it is rather a great deception.
I ll try to reach their helpline. Let us check the customer support then.
...

 

[igufi]

It would have been such a pleasure here to give you here feedback about my Dirac software experiment.
I subscribed the 14 day trial.
And... spent the whole afternoon trying to make it work with Audirvana.

Besides the difficulty to download and install. It never worked.
The farest it went was the mesure process where it swiped 4 time in a row but the last swip had no sound , so it bugged.
Asking to check the speaker configuration (only 2!?!).

After further tries, now, it is not even able to calibrate the volume anymore.
Or it does not recognize the Dirac live processor, or it is behaving unsynch, or internal error or it doesn't recognize the mic anymore or...

I installed everything 3 times and rebooted countless time.
So far it is rather a great deception.
I ll try to reach their helpline. Let us check the customer support then.
...

I did a similar research exercise yesterday with Roon. I had lots of problems getting the VST-plugin to talk with the calibration software but as soon as I switched to a proper DAW to act as the VST-host, everything went swimmingly.

The DAW I used was Reaper (reaper.fm). All you have to do is to enable the VST plugin (FX-button next to the master volume at the bottom right), plugin the laptop audio to your preamp and press “record” in Reaper. Then just run the calibration software. Once you have the filters calculated, you can switch back to Audirvana and enable the VST-plugin there, which should now have the filters visible to toggle on and off.

 

[CMB]

Wau - thank you
A minute ago I didn't know what a DAW is... what an educating site this is! thank you.
I ll try this now.

 

[CMB]

Hello Igufi,

This was an excellent hint.
I did as you said and indeed it suddenly went through to the measuring step.

Now it blocks again there.
When launching a first swip at the main position, it does 3 noises (swip) after each other.
I think it tries a 4th one but with no noise coming out.
Then it says "Samples lost during recording; parts of the recording is missing ... mismatch between specified and actual number of speakers or by incompatibilities between playback and recording device ... check that all speakers are enabled... (???)

Any other magic idea?