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Colinear Acoustics - new 8 channel DSP preamplifier

A 1 GHz SHARC+ processor with inbuilt IIR and FIR accelerators delivers high-speed, low-latency digital signal processing. The internal DSP sampling rate can be set to either 96 kHz or 192 kHz, allowing up to 300 IIR biquads and over 50,000 combined FIR taps for detailed crossover design, correction, and time alignment across all channels.

If all that is true, it is far from an "ugly MiniDSP". For comparison, it's direct competitor would be the MiniDSP Flex Eight. Here is a blow by blow comparison (MiniDSP vs. Colinear):

- 4096 FIR input taps (meaning 2048 taps per stereo channel), vs. 50,000 taps. The Colinear control panel shows FIR inputs and FIR outputs, and the manual says that you can assign 8192 input taps per channel (x 2 channels) and 4096 output taps per channel (x 8 channels). Total = 49152 taps.
- Fixed 96kHz sample rate vs. selectable 96kHz/192kHz sample rate. I would much prefer a 48kHz sample rate rather than higher sample rates though, since lower sample rates increase FIR resolution.
- 160 IIR biquads in total vs. 288.
- 8 balanced jack outputs vs. 8 XLR and 8 RCA outputs
- Inputs: both have USB, TOSLink, and SPDIF. Neither have an ADC.
- MiniDSP has a remote control. Unsure if the Colinear has one or not.
- SINAD: -111dB vs. unknown. And stop worrying about SINAD, as long as it's good enough, i.e. less than -100dB, it's irrelevant! I would even wager that -90dB is good enough! (Not directed at you @DWPress, it's for other people in this thread commenting about DAC chips).
- Price: $549 vs. $1000

In terms of hardware DSP capability, IMO the Colinear is easily the superior product. The REAL question is the software - how do you program this thing.

MiniDSP has a Dirac option and it is directly supported by REW. As I have said elsewhere, biquad coefficients are not portable, meaning that the software has to be able to directly generate biquads for specific hardware. If it isn't directly supported, you will be stuck manually typing in f0, Q, and gains ... 288 times if you use up all available biquads! The Colinear control panel looks very similar to the MiniDSP control panel, effectively it's the same thing but with a different colour scheme. Don't know if REW will directly support them now or in the future.

The manual for MiniDSP is extensive, and they have a support forum. Right now the Colinear manual is absolutely paltry, and as far as I can see - no support forum. Fortunately, this product is so similar to MiniDSP that you can probably adapt MiniDSP procedures to program this thing if you know what you are doing. For the moment at least, it seems as if the Colinear will be more difficult to program for DSP beginners. But for an intermediate level DSP practitioner, especially someone with experience with MiniDSP, it should be quite easy to use.

IMO it sounds like a great product apart from some unknowns. The $1000 price does not bother me, I would happily pay that to get better DSP. The lack of Dirac, unknown REW support, and poor user manual would bother some people. All that is at time of writing, I hope it improves in the future.

Is the SHARC processor the limiting factor in these? Would the ARM processor in the latest DEQX units measure better?

Re: DEQX, it's not a question of "measures better" but whether the DSP capability is better. DEQX is capable of 32768 taps per channel, multiplied by 8 channels, with a selectable sample rate of 44.1kHz - 192kHz. I believe this information is correct because it came from the horse's mouth (Kim Ryrie). It also has excellent SINAD of -116dB (claimed), analog inputs, and XLR mic input. And you can chain multiple DEQX's together to obtain more than 8 channels if you want to.

DEQX is superior to either MiniDSP or Colinear in terms of FIR capability and flexibility. Unfortunately it's still in beta (after 2 years!), and it is stonkingly expensive. I can not recommend it in good conscience since software/PC/RPi solutions are cheaper and more powerful, if less elegant. You could buy Acourate or Audiolense, get a Raspberry Pi, a laptop, an interface, and some accessories like microphones and mic stands, and come in with more than $15k in change over a DEQX and get vastly superior DSP. You don't get the nice case, and convenience features like remote controls, etc. is a pain.
 
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Used BSS Blu160 can do 8 channel in and 8 channel output either analog or digital depending upon the cards installed in it. Internally, it can process way more than 8 channels, you just might need additional boxes (Blu120 or BOB) to get back to analog. Keep a sharp eye on ebay and they can be had for under $300 each. The trick is to make sure they have the cards you want.

A JBL SDEC 4500P is aBlu160 with 12 channels of inputs, 4 outputs and a SDEC4500x which is a Blu120 with 16 channels of analog outputs. I bought a couple of these, saved their configs then wiped them and started from scratch.
 
If all that is true, it is far from an "ugly MiniDSP". For comparison, it's direct competitor would be the MiniDSP Flex Eight. Here is a blow by blow comparison (MiniDSP vs. Colinear):

- 4096 FIR input taps (meaning 2048 taps per stereo channel), vs. 50,000 taps. The Colinear control panel shows FIR inputs and FIR outputs, and the manual says that you can assign 8192 input taps per channel (x 2 channels) and 4096 output taps per channel (x 8 channels). Total = 49152 taps.
- Fixed 96kHz sample rate vs. selectable 96kHz/192kHz sample rate. I would much prefer a 48kHz sample rate rather than higher sample rates though, since lower sample rates increase FIR resolution.
- 160 IIR biquads in total vs. 288.
- 8 balanced jack outputs vs. 8 XLR and 8 RCA outputs
- Inputs: both have USB, TOSLink, and SPDIF. Neither have an ADC.
- MiniDSP has a remote control. Unsure if the Colinear has one or not.
- SINAD: -111dB vs. unknown. And stop worrying about SINAD, as long as it's good enough, i.e. less than -100dB, it's irrelevant! I would even wager that -90dB is good enough! (Not directed at you @DWPress, it's for other people in this thread commenting about DAC chips).
- Price: $549 vs. $1000

In terms of hardware DSP capability, IMO the Colinear is easily the superior product. The REAL question is the software - how do you program this thing.

MiniDSP has a Dirac option and it is directly supported by REW. As I have said elsewhere, biquad coefficients are not portable, meaning that the software has to be able to directly generate biquads for specific hardware. If it isn't directly supported, you will be stuck manually typing in f0, Q, and gains ... 288 times if you use up all available biquads! The Colinear control panel looks very similar to the MiniDSP control panel, effectively it's the same thing but with a different colour scheme. Don't know if REW will directly support them now or in the future.

The manual for MiniDSP is extensive, and they have a support forum. Right now the Colinear manual is absolutely paltry, and as far as I can see - no support forum. Fortunately, this product is so similar to MiniDSP that you can probably adapt MiniDSP procedures to program this thing if you know what you are doing. For the moment at least, it seems as if the Colinear will be more difficult to program for DSP beginners. But for an intermediate level DSP practitioner, especially someone with experience with MiniDSP, it should be quite easy to use.

IMO it sounds like a great product apart from some unknowns. The $1000 price does not bother me, I would happily pay that to get better DSP. The lack of Dirac, unknown REW support, and poor user manual would bother some people. All that is at time of writing, I hope it improves in the future.



Re: DEQX, it's not a question of "measures better" but whether the DSP capability is better. DEQX is capable of 32768 taps per channel, multiplied by 8 channels, with a selectable sample rate of 44.1kHz - 192kHz. I believe this information is correct because it came from the horse's mouth (Kim Ryrie). It also has excellent SINAD of -116dB (claimed), analog inputs, and XLR mic input. And you can chain multiple DEQX's together to obtain more than 8 channels if you want to.

DEQX is superior to either MiniDSP or Colinear in terms of FIR capability and flexibility. Unfortunately it's still in beta (after 2 years!), and it is stonkingly expensive. I can not recommend it in good conscience since software/PC/RPi solutions are cheaper and more powerful, if less elegant. You could buy Acourate or Audiolense, get a Raspberry Pi, a laptop, an interface, and some accessories like microphones and mic stands, and come in with more than $15k in change over a DEQX and get vastly superior DSP. You don't get the nice case, and convenience features like remote controls, etc. is a pain.
CoLinear customer support person mentioned the remote control's ability to control the total volume, so apparently the remote control is present
 
As I have said elsewhere, biquad coefficients are not portable, meaning that the software has to be able to directly generate biquads for specific hardware.
Biquads coefficients are generally portable (NB: minidsp has a particular convention with the sign of a1/a2 but otherwise you can cut and paste from one to another at a given sample rate) but the filter definitions (how q and so on is translated to biquads) can vary. However their manual says to use rew generic mode, aka standard rbj style filters, so that's widely supported.
 
Have anybody seen this CoLinear Acoustics DSP-8C working and measured its performance?
 
Nice product. As I have a Flex Digital is it possible to have some channels digitally bypassed to digital output? I have 2 channels through a nice external DAC and 2 more for the subs.
 
When ASR will review CoLinear Acoustics DSP-8C?
The propably need to send one unit to Amir, not sure they are aware that this would be very beneficial to them. But even if they do it would take some time to get it reviewed
 
I bought one and it arrived yesterday. I am in contact with the suppliers and gave them some feedback on my experience so far. It works well, not as user friendly as my minDSP flex but more powerful. I build filters for a two-way DIY system and also made use of the very long FIR filters on the input. The inputs can have up to 8192 filter coefficients per channel which is a pretty incredible 85ms. I use the long input FIR for room correction, I generated the room correction FIR filter with focus fidelity software and made it a bit shorter (to fit in the 85ms) and windowed it in REW to import it in the DSP-8C, works great. I understood there is a unit underway to Amir, so hope to see measurement results soon on this forum.
 
Can you give more details, what caused opinion "not as user friendly as my minDSP flex"?

A couple of things, that can probably be fixed in a next software release and some things maybe somewhat harder to change. For example, Minidsp has signal level indicators on the inputs and output channels, nice for debugging and easy to see how much headroom you still have, not sure how hard it is to implement that. Minidsp has an option to toggle on/off individual IIR filters or enable/disable all of them in one click (to be fair, the enable/disable all was only added very recently in Minidsp). That can be convenient if you quickly want to measure with and without filters. Same for the FIR filters, there is no on/off switch. Once coefficients are loaded the FIR filters work, if you want to turn it off, you have to delete the coefficients. So you will have to load them again if you want to re-enable the FIR filters. For the IIR filters (PEQ section) the GUI shows the amplitude and phase response of each filter (nice) but it shows each filter individually, not the effect of all enabled filters together, would be nice to have that. For the FIR filters you can also see both amplitude and phase response which is nice. The “issues” are not dealbreakers for me but certainly some opportunities to make it easier to use. Especially initially when you are setting up the system and doing measurements, on/off switches to enable/disable stuff can be handy. I use REW for measurements and IIR filter creation, I use Rephase for simple FIR filters and often use Focus Fidelity for longer room correction like FIR filters. What I really like is the capability of having an 85ms long FIR on the input, that should be much longer than what DIRAC can do on the miniDSP, and it does it at 96kHz while Dirac is limited on miniDSP to 48k sampling rate.

I got the unit yesterday, today it has already replaced my miniDSP in my setup. I am sure the software will get better, all the above I have given as feedback to the developers. Hope they will be successful.

Gertjan
 
The Flex8 and FlexHTx, and the entire Flex family, are limited in the numbers of taps and/or filters you can implement. Each model allocates the filters differently. That being said, they work really well for many applications. I have complete JBL M2 filters implemented with a Flex. The performance differences between various DAC chips is totally unimportant, I can't hear that inaudible stuff. It really comes down to the features, which the MiniDSP implements well - within it's limitations.

I've done software crossovers on a Windows PC with an external interface, it was great but the PC OS sometimes interfered. People get great results if they manage the software and hardware carefully.

Pro-audio solved this long ago, even if the equipment isn't always convenient for home use.
The Flex8 and FlexHTx, and the entire Flex family, are limited in the numbers of taps and/or filters you can implement. Each model allocates the filters differently. That being said, they work really well for many applications. I have complete JBL M2 filters implemented with a Flex. The performance differences between various DAC chips is totally unimportant, I can't hear that inaudible stuff. It really comes down to the features, which the MiniDSP implements well - within it's limitations.

I've done software crossovers on a Windows PC with an external interface, it was great but the PC OS sometimes interfered. People get great results if they manage the software and hardware carefully.

Pro-audio solved this long ago, even if the equipment isn't always convenient for home use.
Hi MAB,
I just ordered one.
Any news about your colinear.
Do you hear any differences to the minidsp.
 
What might one use as an ADC with this? I've never looked into one.
 
Ive just ordered one too ... I have a project for building 3 way studio monitors and sounds a great option for that .

I might ask about rackmount ears ..
 
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