Cognitive dissonance and ASR

[Thomas Savage]

Performance review of Thomas Savage
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Suggestions, should only be allowed to use the words he can spell correctly with nothing more than a pen and paper .

 

[Timcognito]

Sorry if I'm changing the trust here, but the biggest issue for those coming from subjectivity to measurements is lack of any measurement or statements or lines or zones on the graphs of audibility. There is steep unspoken learning curve that must be initiated from within to understand what is physically heard and what is physically impossible to be heard in representation of SINAD, THD, FR, IMD, harmonics, resonances etc. The new member and subjective listener is trusting the ears of an "expert" when reading on other sites. Further, the vilification of some subjective reviewers who have listened to and compared 100s of devices but do not routinely measure is "de rigueur" at ASR, when I'll bet some of those guys can tell a lot about how something sounds. What they write is a significant but different issue. If you don't think one can hear a good system what is your expectation of something that measures well? How accurate is accurate enough when it comes to listening, when you have 20 year old ears? Why do even care if one can't hear it.

 

[Newman]

Sorry if I'm changing the trust here, but the biggest issue for those coming from subjectivity to measurements is lack of any measurement or statements or lines or zones on the graphs of audibility.

Lack of any? Are you serious?

Or are you actually meaning to ask that ASR have a pinned, closed thread at the top of the forums that lays out the limits of human perception of audio-gear-related measurements?

 

[Timcognito]

Lack of any? Are you serious?

Or are you actually meaning to ask that ASR have a pinned, closed thread at the top of the forums that lays out the limits of human perception of audio-gear-related measurements?

Lines on graphs of accepted and expected values of audibility so one does not have peruse a ton of lit or get PhD in acoustic science.

 

[pkane]

Performance review of Thomas Savage
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Shorter words, fewer words, and simplistic pictographs are replacing complex thoughts and emotions in human communications. We are devolving... Thomas is singlehandedly trying to reverse the decline by using longer and longer words

 

[Newman]

Lines on graphs of accepted and expected values of audibility so one does not have peruse a ton of lit or get PhD in acoustic science.

For the metrics you asked, that is not a realistic request. For example, Geddes has shown that the distribution of harmonics in a THD measurement will change its audibility. And Toole has shown that the audibility of a given deviation from flat in a frequency response curve will depend on the reason for the deviation.

If reality is nuanced, it is wrong to demand broad-brush truths.

 

[mhardy6647]

a nice treatment of cognitive dissonance courtesy of Hidden Brain.

One moment, please...

 

[Timcognito]

For the metrics you asked, that is not a realistic request. For example, Geddes has shown that the distribution of harmonics in a THD measurement will change its audibility. And Toole has shown that the audibility of a given deviation from flat in a frequency response curve will depend on the reason for the deviation.

If reality is nuanced, it is wrong to demand broad-brush truths.

Conservative grey bands. So the measurements don't reveal it all and some things can be heard by golden ears? I'm saying where it makes sense, such as SINAD over/under (80?).

 

[Mikig]

Sono d'accordo. Penso anche (dall'osservazione dei thread qui) che molti dei nostri membri che non utilizzano un'app di traduzione avanzata dovrebbero riconsiderare e farlo. Le differenze di significato (chiamatelo "sfumatura" se volete) tra parole e frasi diverse possono essere più sorpanti di quanto alcune persone pensino. Le differenze nel fraseggio (e le diverse ipotesi) possono rovinare anche le discussioni più ben intenzionate.

I agree, I think differently from an English speaker: the construction of the sentence and the concept often reverse the result. The ways of saying are different and if I try to use the “colloquial”, disaster, meaning and sentence totally different. The translator does the rest, very often presenting words or sentences that are meaningless to me. I have to rearrange them with my poor school English….However, however, I have an advantage: I catch all those of you who have the technical commentary written by AI. Yes, that is always translated perfectly into my language, so it was not written by hand but by the “computer” that recognizes it…

 

[Newman]

So the measurements don't reveal it all ...

Isn't it intuitively obvious that broad-brush measures (and those you listed are such) aren't necessarily sufficiently granular?

...and some things can be heard by golden ears?

No. That is not what I said or implied.

Also, there is a difference between the obvious fact that some people have more acute hearing and others have less acute hearing, and the rather different notion of being 'golden eared'. The idea of a 'golden ear' pertains specifically to audio gear and its sonic attributes. The 'golden ear' claims to hear attributes that almost certainly are not even in the sound waves, ie not there to be heard. Also things that do exist in the sound waves but are not having a sonic impact and would not pass a controlled listening test by that very golden ear.

The way you just jumped from what I wrote to your words I quoted above, is illogical.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I really, really hate to upset you, but it seems you have incorrectly defined and used the term cognitive dissonance.

Using an AI search since your post seemed incorrect and I know little about the subject, gives the following description of cognitive dissonance which is clearly at odds with your usage of the term in your post. Cognitive dissonance seems to be discomfort from internal conflicts within ones self, not conflict with others.

"Cognitive dissonance is a feeling of discomfort that occurs when a person's beliefs, values, or actions don't align. It can also happen when someone holds two or more conflicting beliefs." From Google.

That's what I remember from my introductory psych class in 1965 or so. Leon Festinger.

 

[Audionaut]

ASR can act as a powerful catalyst for cognitive dissonance

Absolutely right!
Where is the pink dress and why are you a Mod?

 

[Mort]

Maintaining a healthy constructive atmosphere can be very challenging.

Constructively challenging a status quo that incorporates misinformation is extremely challenging.

See Brandolini's Law or 'the bullshit asymmetry principal.

"The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it."

ASR is far from perfect, but I really appreciate the efforts of many to (mostly) politely challenge bullshit.

 

[TLEDDY]

Suggestions, should only be allowed to use the words he can spell correctly with nothing more than a pen and paper .

In consideration of big words…

I was plaintiff in a seven figure lawsuit against a very large hospital company in the 80s, a multi-billion dollar company. I was preparing for my deposition with my attorney
and a brilliant female business associate. They both complained that I used too many big words and that I needed to not use them in deposition.

The more I tried to limit my vocabulary, the worse it became! They finally gave up.

By the way, I prevailed in the suit and was able to start over debt-free! Starting over is a bitch, however.
The best outcome was that I married the female consultant and we have been together for 34 years!!

Nothing like a happy ending!

Tillman

 

[Sokel]

Performance review of Thomas Savage
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Sartre would be proud of him (he used to include a dictionary for his new-found terms at his books which along with his dense content made translation to other languages a nightmare, hence the epic debates amongst scholars back then)

 

[Multicore]

Shorter words, fewer words, and simplistic pictographs are replacing complex thoughts and emotions in human communications. We are devolving... Thomas is singlehandedly trying to reverse the decline by using longer and longer words

I begrudge any contention concerning the inadequacy of collegial support in said endeavor.