Coffee - do you and how do you consume it?

[Momotaro]

That's a lot of coffee mate.

We'd need a conversion factor between North American brown dishwater and espresso to evaluate.

 

[Raindog123]

need a conversion factor between North American brown dishwater and espresso

Surely you’re joking, Shirley!

 

[Charles E Flynn]

Here we have a review of three coffee grinders, complete with measurements:


$50 vs $500 Vs $500,000 Coffee Grinder

 

[Momotaro]

Surely you’re joking, Shirley!

Well, yes.

But it does call for science* so let's see. A Kuerig k-cup** has 9-12 grams of coffee apparently, roughly half an E61 espresso double shot that most of us*** use to make a ~42 ml cup. A 12-oz cup/mug is 340-355 ml (accounting for any transatlanticism****) so around 8 times more water. Or 16 times less coffee by volume.

So 4-5 of those mugs are 2-3 espresso. That would be an average day for me. Different results for different Kuerig pods however. They reckon up to 26 grams, which would mean 5-6 espresso, thus approaching 'a lot of coffee'.

*using the term loosely, as is the custom
**whatever that means
***espresso machine tragics
****gratuitous Death Cab for Cutie reference

 

[thunderchicken]

Well, yes.

But it does call for science* so let's see. A Kuerig k-cup** has 9-12 grams of coffee apparently, roughly half an E61 espresso double shot that most of us*** use to make a ~42 ml cup. A 12-oz cup/mug is 340-355 ml (accounting for any transatlanticism****) so around 8 times more water. Or 16 times less coffee by volume.

So 4-5 of those mugs are 2-3 espresso. That would be an average day for me. Different results for different Kuerig pods however. They reckon up to 26 grams, which would mean 5-6 espresso, thus approaching 'a lot of coffee'.

*using the term loosely, as is the custom
**whatever that means
***espresso machine tragics
****gratuitous Death Cab for Cutie reference

Hmm... this conversion makes an almost certainly incorrect assumption: that the extraction rate and TDS are the same between the brewing methods. Grind size, water temperature, and brew time are the deciding factors in coffee strength. The amount of coffee grounds in grams is the only metric we can really go on here.

If you're measuring strength by the energy boost, then a cup of drip coffee will have more caffeine than an espresso despite using less ground coffee. Figure 15-18g for espresso and 12g for drip. Caffeine isn't particularly soluble in water and requires time more than anything else. That's why cold brew is so powerful.

 

[Soniclife]

Has anyone a preference for the plastic vs. ceramic V60 funnel? My assumption is that plastic may leach harmful chemicals at high heat. I use the ceramic V60, and feel the wet&wait pour will heat up the funnel.

The coloured plastic versions are safe to use, and better at heat retention, which is important when brewing light roasts, the clear plastic one cracks with boiling water, avoid it. Alternatively just buy the version you like the look of best.

 

[Momotaro]

Hmm... this conversion makes an almost certainly incorrect assumption: that the extraction rate and TDS are the same between the brewing methods. Grind size, water temperature, and brew time are the deciding factors in coffee strength. The amount of coffee grounds in grams is the only metric we can really go on here.

If you're measuring strength by the energy boost, then a cup of drip coffee will have more caffeine than an espresso despite using less ground coffee. Figure 15-18g for espresso and 12g for drip. Caffeine isn't particularly soluble in water and requires time more than anything else. That's why cold brew is so powerful.

Being unfamiliar with Keurig, I assumed it was a Nespresso equivalent (and steve59 was drinking Americano or Lungo). So it's more like a capsule-fed drip machine?

Regarding espresso, in this neck of the woods it's rare to dose as low as 15 grams, as noted above I generally do 20. My sister laughs at me, her shop does 24, for that I'd need a bigger portafilter.

 

[A Surfer]

Espresso? Not for me. I have tried it, but anything that taste remotely like a dark roast makes me feel sick. Never understood how burnt can be associated with good tasting. I have tried to like a dark roast, I really have but I find it wretched.

 

[dfuller]

Espresso? Not for me. I have tried it, but anything that taste remotely like a dark roast makes me feel sick. Never understood how burnt can be associated with good tasting. I have tried to like a dark roast, I really have but I find it wretched.

Well, good news is espresso can be made with any coffee you like. It's a brewing method, not a roast. But yeah, barely-lighter-than-charcoal "espresso roast" is bad.

 

[tmtomh]

My understanding is that the prevalence of very dark roasts in the U.S. was driven primarily by Starbucks: dark roast makes for a strong, albeit bitter, cup of coffee, and dark roasts remove some of the distinctive flavors of the various kinds and batches of beans. So for Starbucks dark roasts have been a way to both distinguish themselves from the weak, watery coffee frequently served by independent diners and sidewalk food carts around the country, while also allowing for more consistent (though, again, over-roasted and bitter) taste across their 1000s of stores. It's basically the coffee equivalent of fast food.

Also, weak coffee can also taste bitter, so the bitterness of the stronger flavor of Starbucks might be something many coffee drinkers don't object to because they think bitterness is just part of the coffee experience.

 

[thunderchicken]

My understanding is that the prevalence of very dark roasts in the U.S. was driven primarily by Starbucks: dark roast makes for a strong, albeit bitter, cup of coffee, and dark roasts remove some of the distinctive flavors of the various kinds and batches of beans. So for Starbucks dark roasts have been a way to both distinguish themselves from the weak, watery coffee frequently served by independent diners and sidewalk food carts around the country, while also allowing for more consistent (though, again, over-roasted and bitter) taste across their 1000s of stores. It's basically the coffee equivalent of fast food.

Also, weak coffee can also taste bitter, so the bitterness of the stronger flavor of Starbucks might be something many coffee drinkers don't object to because they think bitterness is just part of the coffee experience.

You're right- Starbucks does their dark roast to keep consistent flavors from batch to batch even when the beans change drastically. They tend to go well beyond the second crack.

I'm a city roast (first crack) guy and source from local roasters. I'm super spoiled in that regard, I have solid and easy access to fresh roasted Camber, Kuma, Blue Beard, Broadcast, and Olympia to name a few of my favorites.

 

[A Surfer]

Well, good news is espresso can be made with any coffee you like. It's a brewing method, not a roast. But yeah, barely-lighter-than-charcoal "espresso roast" is bad.

Very true, my bad for making that false equivalency between the roast and espresso. I think that because an espresso is typically very concentrated that it truly doesn't matter for me what bean is used I do not at all like the product. I say that knowing there is room for error as I have not bothered with many attempts as probably after the first three or so times I completely abandoned even trying. Just not for me at all.

I do like a double shot americano tall though.

 

[Raindog123]

Changing topic… My coffee mug at work:

 

[dfuller]

My understanding is that the prevalence of very dark roasts in the U.S. was driven primarily by Starbucks: dark roast makes for a strong, albeit bitter, cup of coffee, and dark roasts remove some of the distinctive flavors of the various kinds and batches of beans. So for Starbucks dark roasts have been a way to both distinguish themselves from the weak, watery coffee frequently served by independent diners and sidewalk food carts around the country, while also allowing for more consistent (though, again, over-roasted and bitter) taste across their 1000s of stores. It's basically the coffee equivalent of fast food.

Yep, though interestingly enough the guy who founded Starbucks completely misread how Italian coffee is roasted. It's not usually super dark. It's usually medium to medium-dark (at least for northern Italian coffee), but has some Robusta mixed in for flavor and crema reasons.

Very true, my bad for making that false equivalency between the roast and espresso. I think that because an espresso is typically very concentrated that it truly doesn't matter for me what bean is used I do not at all like the product. I say that knowing there is room for error as I have not bothered with many attempts as probably after the first three or so times I completely abandoned even trying. Just not for me at all.

I do like a double shot americano tall though.

Espresso is very tricky. I went through a lot of coffee before I got drinkable shots. I still generally mix them with milk.

 

[rdenney]

The bag of beans I'm working through now is called "French Roast" and it's very dark. I guess I don't mind that. I don't like the acidy flavor of light roasts, at least the one's I've had. Maybe that's a reaction to too many years of Folgers run through a Mr. Coffee and then left to sit for six hours.

Rick "but weak dark is worse than strong dark" Denney

 

[Neddy]

Amazing how many 'no longer doing business as' coffee cups I've aquired working in IT!

An update - I changed to a Jura A1 (the affordable non-milk one, on sale $200 off) a few months back, and have to say it's been a big improvement over my previous fussy pour over and Technivorm methods.
Very well made, incredible engineering, fairly inscrutable operationally but easy to use the basics, so far, six months on, no problems what so ever (cost of accessories like descaling, filters are nuts, but is what it is.)

I saw one complaint about the 'coffee not being hot enough', but I haven't experience that - tho I preheat my insulated glass cups before hand...still, it produces coffee/espresso's hot enough to burn your lips (I did measure it, but no longer remember the results).

Bottom line, it's perfect for one person, once a day habit (ie, several cups worth), and seems to do an excellent job of grinding, espresso and coffee doses; and, on a 'need more coffee' day, adding more water is easy (and non-drippy - that part is Very Well engineered).

It IS a bit fussy maintenance wise (every day cleaning, squawking about filter changes (not needed, I pre-filter my water) and de-scaling (also not needed as often, I use softened water), and not a huge water capacity.

(Oddly, I was a strictly non-milk drinker before getting this, but (!!) started heating and frothing milk separately afterwards! Go figure, I've learned to like 'fancy'?)

It absolutely requires frequent references to the user manual to interpret all the weird symbols they use, but gradually gaining on that.
Oh, and can only change the grind setting When Grinding - almost missed that warning in the manual.

I have covid loss of taste and smell syndrome, but after a year and a half, I get about 15secs or so of 'true flavor' each time I taste something from a 'resting' pallete (sp?).
So, as near as I can tell in 15sec bits, the flavor qualities of the various roasts I get from my local roaster is Excellent, very close to indistinguishable from the brews I can buy there.
It does take some effort to 'experiment' with grind sizes...but then if your not serious about your coffee you wouldn't go this route, eh?
Overall I'd rate it as a Big Win - and have moved all my other coffee makers into storage to collect dust together with their brethren (must be 20 of them in there?), tho I've kept the pour over and aeropress handy for 'emergencies'.

Ned "Where'd' BlueBottle get to?" Segun (sorry, couldn't resist, Mr. Denney!).

 

[dfuller]

The bag of beans I'm working through now is called "French Roast" and it's very dark. I guess I don't mind that. I don't like the acidy flavor of light roasts, at least the one's I've had. Maybe that's a reaction to too many years of Folgers run through a Mr. Coffee and then left to sit for six hours.

Rick "but weak dark is worse than strong dark" Denney

French roast is super super dark. I'm not into light roast coffee either, but generally if a coffee is oily it's too dark for me. I'm firmly a medium roast type.

 

[A Surfer]

Changing topic… My coffee mug at work:

View attachment 172718

I remember when Netscape Navigator was a thing. I used to design websites and it was always a pain in the ass on Navigator as it rarely implemented things such as Cascading Style Sheets (or even standard HTML for that matter) properly. Back in the day when you had to have java script detect the browser being used and serve the appropriate site. I still miss Netscape though - great logo.

 

[Count Arthur]

I remember when Netscape Navigator was a thing. I used to design websites and it was always a pain in the ass on Navigator as it rarely implemented things such as Cascading Style Sheets (or even standard HTML for that matter) properly. Back in the day when you had to have java script detect the browser being used and serve the appropriate site. I still miss Netscape though - great logo.

I used to have a copy of Netscacpe, 4.0, I think, just for checking sites.

I now have an iPhone for a similar reason.

Here's hoping that Apple goes the same way as Netscape, I'tll make my job a lot easier.

 

[Momotaro]

I used to have a copy of Netscacpe, 4.0, I think, just for checking sites.

I now have an iPhone for a similar reason.

Here's hoping that Apple goes the same way as Netscape, I'tll make my job a lot easier.

Reminds me of ArsTechnica Battlefront in the good olde days: Apple is doomed I tell you, doomed.