Oh yes, I would assume everyone has good fundamentals and understanding before venturing out to the whacky gadgets that make miniscule 5% differences.
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Coffee - do you and how do you consume it?
- Thread starter spacevector
- Start date
I've been pulling manual (lever) shots for over a decade (same machine).
Yet, I am still learning new stuff (process and technique improvements), not just applicable to my machine but also how small refinements change the taste/character of the yield.
The following lever-regimen, in the AM, is what gets us thru the day:
Thanks and chin-chin!
Yet, I am still learning new stuff (process and technique improvements), not just applicable to my machine but also how small refinements change the taste/character of the yield.
The following lever-regimen, in the AM, is what gets us thru the day:
- Non-exotic medium roasts (under $20/lb)
- 16.3grams dose (52mm porta-filter)
- 5second soak delay (before pull)
- 27-30second pull
- 40gm yield
Thanks and chin-chin!
Technically pumps or lever do not deliver pressure, they deliver flow rate. The pressure is created by the puck not he pump/lever. How much pressure do you think will be created if the puck wasn't there? Yet you always get flow rate.
From the point of view of the puck, it doesn't know how the water is delivered. The air gap above the puck exists in both types of machines due to geometry. Yes, the E61 valving does delay pressure to the puck for a small pre-infusion phase but that could also happen for lever machine if the operator chooses to do so. It's debatable as to whether not letting the grinds bloom in the pre-infusion phase is a good or bad thing. Having immediate extraction in a lever machine is a choice done by the operator. This is the variable flow rate ability.
This statement that "standard" espresso machines have everything fixed and lever machines are inherently better is what what I was saying was a stretch. I'm sure if I used a lever machine for the first time and pulled 10 shots they would all be terrible to just mediocre at best. How is that inherently better?
Some years back, I started purchasing beans in 5pound bulks for consistency' sake.
Different beans always require some technique changes, as you state. Such as, grind changes and the correct tamping/leveling.
When starting with a new bulk bean purchase; Invariably, I waste the first few shot-pulls!
My benchmark for comparison is a hi-end local coffee shop called Keane. Every few months, I visit them for for a few shots, for re-calibrating my taste-buds!
ADD: How does an automated espresso machine automatically adjust to new beans?
tineared
Senior Member
Perhaps you folks could start a website called Coffee Science Review
I doubt Amir would sue for copyright infringement and surely you have the energy to pull it off
I doubt Amir would sue for copyright infringement and surely you have the energy to pull it off
There are some good ones already. Home Barista and Coffee Geek.Perhaps you folks could start a website called Coffee Science Review
I doubt Amir would sue for copyright infringement and surely you have the energy to pull it off
tineared
Senior Member
Perhaps I should visit them since I can't replicate the taste of "authentic" Cuban espresso either with or without a machine
I don't think I've had authentic Cuban espresso before. I might have tried it in Miami 15 years ago but that's as close as I've gotten. My guess is it has a lot to do with the type of beans and roast. Maybe they use more Robusta in Cuba? There are other people here who probably know.
They don't, which is why I would never get one. At least not a non-programmable one. This is also why Starbucks sucks as they don't have baristas anymore, just button monkeys.
tineared
Senior Member
I've tried Cafe Bustelo and Pilon. It's what the authentic Cuban window shops use so it must be user error
Check this out. Let us know if it helps.
How to Make a Cafe Cubano
Requested often, CoffeeGeek presents the Cafe Cubano How To, made with real espresso, while still holding onto its traditional build roots.
coffeegeek.com
I may be "a man of his word!" <<
!But I did go to Keane's earlier today, for my 'periodic re-calibration'.
I was alarmed when I noticed that they were selling 100% Kona beans for $60/12oz.I also noticed that they had the Colombian GESHA beans selling for $24/12oz.
I was about to make an exception to my 'costly exotics' rule, since -I've heard- Gesha is said to be 'creme de la creme" of beans.
But I was told otherwise by one of the baristas who knew his beans.
He said that Gesha does not work well for espresso, as it supposed to bring out a 'tart' aftertaste... at a minimum.
I am very fond of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe beans and he advised me "You won't like the difference!"
Keane's 'house-blend' Quad-shot espresso cost me $8 (w/tip).
That put a smile on my face, knowing that I can have eight days of Yirgacheffe quad-shots at home for that price.
RexrothPigeon
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I love gesha for espresso, but it's worth noting that not all geshas are created equal. the "creme de la creme" ones are pretty much all from panama or gesha village ethiopia. Colombian, Ecuadorian, etc. are good, but very different from the ones that fetch the record breaking prices at auction.
I have looked myself in the mirror and come to a conclusion. I have a coffee addiction. Now that I know I have the problem I will take the next 5 years to think about how to deal with it. Oh, and as many of you know, I am a cheap whore of an addict. Cheap coffee, expensive coffee, watered down coffee it all is drinkable to me. My addiction knows no bounds. If you see me living on the street by a Home Depot or Walmart, throw some change into my cup for me!
My work has created even more of a coffee monster out of me...We needed to get a coffee service (corporate rules which we had to abide by) so we also got a Bravilor Bonamat Sego 12 bean to cup coffee maker. Then they offered a local roastery from phoenix (Cartel Coffee) for beans so we had to support local....
The sego 12 has quite a few settings, grind size, grind amount, immersion time, pre/post wetting/rinsing, amount of water, etc. Before the install guy left I was messing with all these settings! It also has milk froth and hot cocoa mix that you can make different drinks with.
It is not quite as good as a true manual process, but it is better than what most people drink on a daily basis!
The sego 12 has quite a few settings, grind size, grind amount, immersion time, pre/post wetting/rinsing, amount of water, etc. Before the install guy left I was messing with all these settings! It also has milk froth and hot cocoa mix that you can make different drinks with.
It is not quite as good as a true manual process, but it is better than what most people drink on a daily basis!
The meticulous is really fascinating for a number of reasons, the software licensing being one that may be nothing or may be the new BMW heated seat subscription. But to be honest, I don't care about any of that, because it is a huge machine that operates as a glorified Flair 58. For that price, I shouldn't have to pour water in. I should get a steam wand. The built-in stuff is incredibly cool but cannot compare practically otherwise. Flow and pressure control are awesome no matter the application, pump or lever, and the real value here is that there is a $2kUSD machine with a near-infinite water debit and variable everything. I just don't get how you drop the ball so hard on real-life function. It also has all of the same problems as any Flair system. Limited water limits the value of a flow control system that would otherwise be capable of delivering hot water to a pour over or brewing very long ratios as espresso itself is trending towards. No three-way valve means you have to dump excess water, but adding those features gives you a $3-4k retail machine fast. It will be more interesting to see if they can succeed within their niche and if new owners will be retained in the long term. In the meantime, long live the long black, long live the cortado. Y'all are missing out otherwise.
Nondemo01
Active Member
Okay. First, I'm obsessive/compulsive. Comes from having been in the Navy jumping out of planes for 23+ years. Second, because I'm obsessive/compulsive, I HAD to have matching "stuff". So when my Breville died, I decided to try pour overs. Based on reviews, I picked up a Fellow Stagg Pout-Over set, Fellow Ode Brew grinder, and their Tally Pro Precision scale. Then had to have a matching Fellow Stagg EKG Electric Kettle. Anyhoo, the scale makes it SO EASY to perfect pour overs and I'm hooked. Yes, that's near a $1000 for coffee, BUT well worth it while listening to Miles Davis.
as a Flair user for a couple of years (switched from classic to pro2 and Flair58 for the last 2 years), I kind of agree. but -
this is just me talking, you get to a point where you want to replicate your amazing espresso shot over and over , and it's not that easy with a manual lever machine. i think that's where the meticulous comes in with its advanced profiling.
size wise - the Flair58 is 18cm in width, while the Meticulous is 24 . no biggy
I'm back to enjoying coffee again; I found moderation is the key. I have one 12 ounce cup each morning. I bought a Technivorm Moccamaster KBGV brewer and a Fellow Ode Gen 2 grinder. I grind 41 grams of beans each morning using setting 6 on the grinder for 3/4 liter of water, just enough for one cup each for me and the wife. I've been trying different coffees. I prefer a good medium roast or a mix of medium and dark roast; I don't care for strong dark roasts. I really like Lavazza Top Class Filtro. I recently bought some medium roast 100% Kauai grown that was also very good. There is a local coffee roaster, Java D'Oro, that has some very good single source offerings. Likely blasphemy here but I prefer my coffee with heavy cream or half-and-half with a couple of Splenda or a little real sugar.
Martin
Martin
Good choice, I've been using a Moccamaster for a very long time. It's the only kitchen appliance my wife has never complained about.
I like a bit of h&h in my drip coffee as I like how it compliments the deeper notes of medium and dark roasts. I avoid sugar as it tends to masks a lot of the nuances and make all coffee taste the same. But that's just my palate, YMMV.