Coffee - do you and how do you consume it?

[dlaloum]

After many years of experimenting (including 10 years of roasting my own beans) - my coffee standard is this:

1) use "sweet" arabica beans roasted city to medium (depending on the bean) (favourite blend is Mandheling with 20% Malabar added - but there are plenty of other excellent combos)
2) Use a "smart" electric kettle having good temperature control... a "Coffee setting"
3) Use a Grinder which allows for easy/quick variation of amounts/grind fineness (adjust amount of coffee ground and fineness, to match bean blend and batch/# of cups )
4) Use a stainless steel french press - dismantle and place in dishwasher after every use.

We get consistent excellent coffee, and there is no need to constantly purchase filters, and dispose of them.

Yes my alternate preferred coffee making methods include "pour over" and "drip filter" - in terms of the way the coffee tastes/texture - but French Press is simple, easy, washable and repeatable!

(we have 3 different size french presses... so we can cater for differing occasions/requirements)

 

[A Surfer]

for similar reason I got ceramic V60 drip, what I like more than french press is the paper filter, the coffee is clear with zero gunk plus there's few more variables to refine the brew to taste

I may look into this device.

 

[holdingpants01]

BTW my problem with plastic isn't necessarily the taste (my tastebuds are not that sensitive), but microplastics. I managed to change the whole way of brewing coffee to minimise it in a few ways. I use tap water which is of high quality here, but put it through filter anyway. I don't like Brita as it's made from plastic (both the filter and the jug). I found Aarke filters which are made completely from glass and steel, I just replace the filter filling every month. Then there's an electric kettle. A LOT of them including Smeg and other higher priced models use some plastic or silicone directly in contact with water, however simple Xiaomi is 100% stainless steel including the inside of the lid. I use Hario steel kettle with a goose neck just to pour boiled water. The V60 is ceramic and the coffee drips into a glass jar. The result is clear dark coloured coffee with zero residue, even the cup could be just rinsed with water as it looks like the coffee was never there

 

[dlaloum]

for similar reason I got ceramic V60 drip, what I like more than french press is the paper filter, the coffee is clear with zero gunk plus there's few more variables to refine the brew to taste

I find that a little bit of the very fine powder coffee in suspension is part of what gives coffee its "mouthfeel" - a totally clear solution is just too thin.

(in the right place and time, I also enjoy middle eastern coffee - which is a true suspension... and if it isn't thick as mud, it don't cut the mustard!)

In any case that is one of the reasons I gravitate to a french press rather than a filter - among others.

 

[A Surfer]

I also suspect that I like the particulates in my FP coffee. My coffee experience is almost completely at work and there I think the labour intensive hand grinding the beans for the FP is a good thing because it keeps me at 2 cups a day, 3 on tougher to stay going days.

I'm still interested in a fully automated system for my home, more for shits and giggles than anything else. But again, it has to be plastic free. I rather doubt that I will find such a device, but frankly I'm not sure why it would be so rare. Seems like a plastic free device (free of plastic where any water storage, heating or serving is concerned) would probably be quite popular.

 

[Spkrdctr]

So apparently, now there are coffee suppositories. Don’t tell the Army.

what? Have a company name? That is crazy.

 

[dlaloum]

I also suspect that I like the particulates in my FP coffee. My coffee experience is almost completely at work and there I think the labour intensive hand grinding the beans for the FP is a good thing because it keeps me at 2 cups a day, 3 on tougher to stay going days.

I'm still interested in a fully automated system for my home, more for shits and giggles than anything else. But again, it has to be plastic free. I rather doubt that I will find such a device, but frankly I'm not sure why it would be so rare. Seems like a plastic free device (free of plastic where any water storage, heating or serving is concerned) would probably be quite popular.

I've seen a couple of fully automated brewing machines - all espressor style, with built in beans compartment, burr grinder, and self cleaning - they certainly aren't cheap.

I've found them to produce good coffee, if the beans are decent.

Seen them in fancy office fitouts - not in consumer/domestic situations - the ones I saw were plumbed into the water mains, and the "core" could be removed for dishwashing periodicalle, as well as having a compartment that needed emptying for grounds...

I believe Miele have a domestic version of this type of machine?

 

[A Surfer]

I've seen a couple of fully automated brewing machines - all espressor style, with built in beans compartment, burr grinder, and self cleaning - they certainly aren't cheap.

I've found them to produce good coffee, if the beans are decent.

Seen them in fancy office fitouts - not in consumer/domestic situations - the ones I saw were plumbed into the water mains, and the "core" could be removed for dishwashing periodicalle, as well as having a compartment that needed emptying for grounds...

I believe Miele have a domestic version of this type of machine?

I'll certainly be looking into a nice consumer device next year.

 

[babar]

i have a jura. can animate recommend a kona coffee to try?
also i love the grumpy mule peru coffee, but it’s not available in whole bean outside the uk. any alternative suggestions for a velvety smooth flavor.

 

[dlaloum]

i have a jura. can animate recommend a kona coffee to try?
also i love the grumpy mule peru coffee, but it’s not available in whole bean outside the uk. any alternative suggestions for a velvety smooth flavor.

Velvety smooth... Sumatran mandheling.

 

[Spkrdctr]

i have a jura. can animate recommend a kona coffee to try?
also i love the grumpy mule peru coffee, but it’s not available in whole bean outside the uk. any alternative suggestions for a velvety smooth flavor.

I can look for a kona, but a pure Kona is expensive and hard to find. Or at least it was about 5 years ago last time I looked. It is a very unique flavor if you have never had it. But it can be a great unique flavor.

100% Kona Coffee - Medium Roast

Indulge in the rich, smooth taste of our 100% Kona Coffee Medium Roast. Made with the finest beans from the Kona region of Hawaii.

halatreecoffee.com

I found the above. ANY coffee that has the word "Blend" is not 100% Kona. There are other companies when I searched but this just gives you and idea of what is available. It seems that in the last 5 years they have started blending Kona with everything imaginable. So, you can literally try about a dozen flavors. I only have had the 100% Kona ground for a drip (Mr Coffee) style coffee maker. Worked for me! I would also recommend always buying the smallest amount to see what you like. Good luck on your journey!

 

[sibi1865]

I’m looking to buy a new grinder and have found myself feeling I’ve entered a world similar to the audiophool. PSD being equal, do conical versus flat burrs, or different geometries and coatings really produce different taste profiles?

I’m considering the likes of the DF64, Niche Zero/Duo, Eureka Stark, Rocket Spluga, and Quamar M80/Nemo, and more commercial grinders such as the Compak i6.

I’ve come across this article based on the tests performed by Kaffeemacher:

https://coffeeadastra.com/2023/09/2...-size-distributions-for-24-espresso-grinders/

The G-Iota Probarista (14) in these analyses is, as I understand it, the DF64.

In the plot showing the blind tasting score (I can't find any information on how this was conducted), the Eureka models (8 and 17) score a little better than the Niche (18). However, the opposite is true on the Kaffeemacher website:

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/eureka-mignon-xl-im-test

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/niche-zero-espressomuhle-im-test-ein-stimmiges-paket

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/die-beste-espressomuhle-fur-zuhause

I’ve been using the Ascasco I-Steel i1 for around ten years now. The main reasons I want to replace it is its retention and no direct access to the burrs for cleaning purposes. To give it credit, however, it’s still working after many daily whacks!

Any thoughts?

 

[majingotan]

IMHO, I’d focus on the reliability and ease of use, cleaning etc. rather than the subtle differences in grinder burrs.

If you’re doing milk based espressos or even full bodied satisfying espresso mouthfeel and have the reliability and ease of maintenance, etc, nothing is better than the Niche Zero

 

[sibi1865]

IMHO, I’d focus on the reliability and ease of use, cleaning etc. rather than the subtle differences in grinder burrs.

If you’re doing milk based espressos or even full bodied satisfying espresso mouthfeel and have the reliability and ease of maintenance, etc, nothing is better than the Niche Zero

Thanks. I was just looking at some demonstrations of cleaning and the Niche Zero does win in this respect. With the flat burrs too, I wonder why most are screwed from the grinding side, rather than the "underside", because these areas are prone to retention.

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks. I was just looking at some demonstrations of cleaning and the Niche Zero does win in this respect. With the flat burrs too, I wonder why most are screwed from the grinding side, rather than the "underside", because these areas are prone to retention.

I spent several hours watching a bunch of faces on YT discussing the DF grinders, along with Eureka and the Niche (oh, and the timemore sculptor, too)... those were where I have been leaning. End of the day it really seems that they all have their pros and cons, and none of them are real deal breakers.

For me, I'm probably buying a DF soon. Im leaning strongly to the 83V, though the 64v is still in consideration.

One of the things I got from watching all those faces on YT is that the newer stock burrs on the DF grinders are pretty good. Unless you are really looking for something specific, it seemed to come down to minutiae. I'm espresso only, and in that regard what I gathered about the SSP Multipurpose burr was that it might not be great for the type of Espresso I like, though it isn't bad for it either. One of the reviewers said he preferred the stock espresso burr to the SSP MP, even, and iirc said that there was very little difference to the SSP HU option.

Ultimately, this gave me confidence that I could run with the stock burrs for a while and probably for the life of the machine. Maybe someday I"ll ask "what if" but when it comes down to it, the DFs are pretty much checking every box I can think of wanting in my next grinder, including ease of opening the grind chamber and cleaning.

YMMV, of course.

Also they do offer 30 days for refund, minus shipping, assuming you clean it up and ship it back with all its original packaging. *shrugs

 

[sibi1865]

I spent several hours watching a bunch of faces on YT discussing the DF grinders, along with Eureka and the Niche (oh, and the timemore sculptor, too)... those were where I have been leaning. End of the day it really seems that they all have their pros and cons, and none of them are real deal breakers.

For me, I'm probably buying a DF soon. Im leaning strongly to the 83V, though the 64v is still in consideration.

One of the things I got from watching all those faces on YT is that the newer stock burrs on the DF grinders are pretty good. Unless you are really looking for something specific, it seemed to come down to minutiae. I'm espresso only, and in that regard what I gathered about the SSP Multipurpose burr was that it might not be great for the type of Espresso I like, though it isn't bad for it either. One of the reviewers said he preferred the stock espresso burr to the SSP MP, even, and iirc said that there was very little difference to the SSP HU option.

Ultimately, this gave me confidence that I could run with the stock burrs for a while and probably for the life of the machine. Maybe someday I"ll ask "what if" but when it comes down to it, the DFs are pretty much checking every box I can think of wanting in my next grinder, including ease of opening the grind chamber and cleaning.

YMMV, of course.

Also they do offer 30 days for refund, minus shipping, assuming you clean it up and ship it back with all its original packaging. *shrugs

The DF64/83 appear quite well built and come with a portafilter holder. I expect further iterations will get even better, especially if they improve the chute. Still hard to beat at the price. I quite like the grind adjustment knobs, and other features, of the Eureka models, but I don't think I'd be better off with one in terms of retention over my current grinder despite what their marketing says. The Niche Zero may just win it for me, even if its price doesn't make it look as attractive as it once did. Niche also offer a 30 day return.

 

[Odorb]

I’m looking to buy a new grinder and have found myself feeling I’ve entered a world similar to the audiophool. PSD being equal, do conical versus flat burrs, or different geometries and coatings really produce different taste profiles?

I’m considering the likes of the DF64, Niche Zero/Duo, Eureka Stark, Rocket Spluga, and Quamar M80/Nemo, and more commercial grinders such as the Compak i6.

I’ve come across this article based on the tests performed by Kaffeemacher:

https://coffeeadastra.com/2023/09/2...-size-distributions-for-24-espresso-grinders/

The G-Iota Probarista (14) in these analyses is, as I understand it, the DF64.

In the plot showing the blind tasting score (I can't find any information on how this was conducted), the Eureka models (8 and 17) score a little better than the Niche (18). However, the opposite is true on the Kaffeemacher website:

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/eureka-mignon-xl-im-test

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/niche-zero-espressomuhle-im-test-ein-stimmiges-paket

https://kaffeemacher.de/en/blogs/espressomuhlen/die-beste-espressomuhle-fur-zuhause

I’ve been using the Ascasco I-Steel i1 for around ten years now. The main reasons I want to replace it is its retention and no direct access to the burrs for cleaning purposes. To give it credit, however, it’s still working after many daily whacks!

Any thoughts?

I started exploring this a while back and ended up with a Niche Zero and DF64 for comparison. It really does come down to the burrs, assuming the grinder sample is aligned well enough, and flat burr grinders have the advantage of being able to swap these as budget allows.

The Mazzer conical burrs on the Niche seem to produce more fines (less unimodal) giving body for lattes, where clarity doesn't really matter, and a fairly chocolately flavour with med to dark roast beans.

Using the DF64 with DLC burr (stock I think) I found a very similar flavour and body profile to the Niche Mazzers burrs but with a bit more flavour separation. I prefer this to the Niche for lattes.

Using the DF64 with SSP HU burrs, I like the lattes a bit less than the DLC but espresso and filter coffee is better using anything from dark to light roast.

The rate at which you feed the beans to the grinder affects the taste too. Feeding slower seems to make a burr behave more unimodal. So if I want an espresso with the Niche I might feed 5g at a time while if I want a latte on the DF64 I'll have the grinder running (hot start) and dump them all in. The crowding and heat generation in the burrs, when all the beans are fed at once, seems to create more fines.

So it depends on what you drink:
Med to dark roast latte: Niche or DF64 DLC
Light to dark roast lattes, espresso, pourover: DF64 HU
Light roast espresso, pourover: DF64 MP (maybe, they produce a lot of clarity which may only work for some beans)

But it depends on your taste so the above should be taken with a grain of salt (as always). I haven't even looked at 83mm burrs and the flavour profiles for those are quite different again apparently. As a flexible value option though, it's hard to go past the DF64. The burrs can be pricey but, unlike speakers (arguably?), burrs actually do benefit from burn-in/seasoning so buying second hand should be fine.

 

[sibi1865]

I started exploring this a while back and ended up with a Niche Zero and DF64 for comparison. It really does come down to the burrs, assuming the grinder sample is aligned well enough, and flat burr grinders have the advantage of being able to swap these as budget allows.

The Mazzer conical burrs on the Niche seem to produce more fines (less unimodal) giving body for lattes, where clarity doesn't really matter, and a fairly chocolately flavour with med to dark roast beans.

Using the DF64 with DLC burr (stock I think) I found a very similar flavour and body profile to the Niche Mazzers burrs but with a bit more flavour separation. I prefer this to the Niche for lattes.

Using the DF64 with SSP HU burrs, I like the lattes a bit less than the DLC but espresso and filter coffee is better using anything from dark to light roast.

The rate at which you feed the beans to the grinder affects the taste too. Feeding slower seems to make a burr behave more unimodal. So if I want an espresso with the Niche I might feed 5g at a time while if I want a latte on the DF64 I'll have the grinder running (hot start) and dump them all in. The crowding and heat generation in the burrs, when all the beans are fed at once, seems to create more fines.

So it depends on what you drink:
Med to dark roast latte: Niche or DF64 DLC
Light to dark roast lattes, espresso, pourover: DF64 HU
Light roast espresso, pourover: DF64 MP (maybe, they produce a lot of clarity which may only work for some beans)

But it depends on your taste so the above should be taken with a grain of salt (as always). I haven't even looked at 83mm burrs and the flavour profiles for those are quite different again apparently. As a flexible value option though, it's hard to go past the DF64. The burrs can be pricey but, unlike speakers (arguably?), burrs actually do benefit from burn-in/seasoning so buying second hand should be fine.

Thanks. It sounds as if I need to do some experimenting myself. Did you end up keeping both grinders?

 

[Odorb]

Thanks. It sounds as if I need to do some experimenting myself. Did you end up keeping both grinders?

Yeah. I find the work flow on both pretty similar. I'd actually look at the new DF64 v2 (is it?) for even more flexibility. The RPM change would probably act like variable feeding rates. Two of those with DLC and HP/MP would offer a lot of flexibility.

I don't have experience with it but replacing one of those with a DF83v sounds great. Loads of experimentation possible but there's fewer 83mm burrs available and they're more expensive anyway.

I actually grabbed a pietro hand grinder for pourover and really like it. Pricey, but if you look at the thread on home barista it produces cups with quality similar to grinders with a $10k price tag.

 

[sibi1865]

Yeah. I find the work flow on both pretty similar. I'd actually look at the new DF64 v2 (is it?) for even more flexibility. The RPM change would probably act like variable feeding rates. Two of those with DLC and HP/MP would offer a lot of flexibility.

I don't have experience with it but replacing one of those with a DF83v sounds great. Loads of experimentation possible but there's fewer 83mm burrs available and they're more expensive anyway.

I actually grabbed a pietro hand grinder for pourover and really like it. Pricey, but if you look at the thread on home barista it produces cups with quality similar to grinders with a $10k price tag.

Yes, the latest iteration of the DF64 is v2. Given the speed at which new versions are being introduced, it may be worth waiting a while.