Cocktail Audio X45 Streamer/Ripper/DAC Review

[ahofer]

It's true that all the rebooting and maintenance, as well as security vulnerabilities, presented by PCs are a drag, and there's every reason to prefer a well-designed streaming appliance.

On the other hand, the appliances (since they ARE networked computers) often put all that out of sight, which is fine until one of those vulnerabilities or maintenance problems crops up. In general, dedicated linux units are the safest route here. A good open source but integrated package of hardware and OS build, with DSP, streaming, etc. would be an attractive appliance. ANd it could be a lot easier than installing camilla, moode, and a screen on your raspberry pi, plus any connection hardware you need.

 

[ocinn]

That's just in analog pass-through/pre-amp. The DAC in Matrix is much better performing.

That was my original point, "and analog performance is arguably a bit lacking compared to this". I could have worded it a bit better

Generously assuming they didn't butcher the implementation as they did with this one (filter), the X45Pro should be SOTA as it has a 9038PRO.

 

[mps]

Amir mentioned the slow filter as a negative. As someone who is ignorant, what is the downside to this?

 

[sarumbear]

Amir mentioned the slow filter as a negative. As someone who is ignorant, what is the downside to this?

Distortion on high frequencies. Read the review.

 

[mps]

The review said that the consequence is ultrasonic noise. I what way does ultrasonic noise affect audible frequencies that are emitted by a speaker?

 

[shuppatsu]

The review said that the consequence is ultrasonic noise. I what way does ultrasonic noise affect audible frequencies that are emitted by a speaker?

My understanding of these matters is too weak to place any weight in my opinion, but I'll give my take in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable will correct me.

In theory, ultrasonic noise should not affect audible frequencies. Similarly, in theory hi-res audio should be indistinguishable from redbook (except for gain riding fade outs and the like). But we have some mixed empirical evidence that trained people can detect hi-res audio. The literature on audibility is messy and it's difficult to glean firm conclusions from them. Possibly for this reason, ASR has flirted with but has largely given up on setting boundaries for transparency other than ignoring things beyond -120dB.

Ultrasonic aliasing might cause some problems, like old amplifiers being unable to handle ultrasonics and creating audible artifacts. But most likely the top end distortion is completely inaudible. So why then does Amir criticize the choice of a slow filter?

Audibility is a pit of vipers. Critics don't like ASR's seeming emphasis on SINAD, pointing out that SINAD treats all distortion the same even though some can be inaudible and others can sound horrible at the same level due to masking effects. Amir would surely agree but that doesn't stop him from using SINAD as his proxy for overall performance [yes, I'm overstating it and Amir has provided necessary disclaimers]. Absent compelling evidence on audibility I believe Amir leans on his predilections as an engineer and simply values excellent engineering. Since most decent stuff is transparent to most everybody anyways, and seeing as audibility just results in endless arguments, engineering for engineering's sake is a reasonable place to land. We have products that solve these problems, so why bother with products that don't?

Features, that's why, and the x45 has features for days. The decision to buy it should rest on price vs. the effectiveness and usability of these features, IMO. Not whether the filter is slow. But we all have different things we can live with, and what we cannot.

 

[pseudoid]

I think I am beginning to see/imagine things...
I don't even do cockatails!

 

[Timcognito]

A station wagon/estate car also solved problems but people decided that SUV or truck is a better option.

Long waiting list to get one of these. 0-60 mph 4.3 seconds.

 

[PeteL]

It's true that all the rebooting and maintenance, as well as security vulnerabilities, presented by PCs are a drag, and there's every reason to prefer a well-designed streaming appliance.

On the other hand, the appliances (since they ARE networked computers) often put all that out of sight, which is fine until one of those vulnerabilities or maintenance problems crops up. In general, dedicated linux units are the safest route here. A good open source but integrated package of hardware and OS build, with DSP, streaming, etc. would be an attractive appliance. ANd it could be a lot easier than installing camilla, moode, and a screen on your raspberry pi, plus any connection hardware you need.

Linux is sure a valid and perhaps great option, but it cannot possibly be safer than a dedicated custom ARM based processing combined with some micro-controllers in the vein of XMOS. Then you are completely in control, agnostic, independant, not subject on how the world develops around you.

 

[shuppatsu]

Linux is sure a valid and perhaps great option, but it cannot possibly be safer than a dedicated custom ARM based processing combined with some micro-controllers in the vein of XMOS. Then you are completely in control, agnostic, independant, not subject on how the world develops around you.

What is "dedicated custom ARM based processing?" A streamer has to be able to access outside APIs, so we need proper networking libraries. There's no way that a custom library would be as safe as something as battle-tested as a mainstream Linux solution. Security by obscurity is inherently risky.

 

[PeteL]

What is "dedicated custom ARM based processing?" A streamer has to be able to access outside APIs, so we need proper networking libraries. There's no way that a custom library would be as safe as something as battle-tested as a mainstream Linux solution. Security by obscurity is inherently risky.

OK, you probably know better. As far as I know the main ones out there (Sonos, Bluesound, Mini DSP SHD, Yamaha music cast line, etc, all the big guns, don't run on linux. And all have in house environment based on ARM architechture. No? (I know there are Linux distros on ARM so I may be mistaken.

 

[shuppatsu]

OK, you probably know better. As far as I know the main ones out there (Sonos, Bluesound, Mini DSP SHD, Yamaha music cast line, etc, all the big guns, don't run on linux. And all have in house environment based on ARM architechture. No? (I know there are Linux distros on ARM so I may be mistaken.

I didn’t look them all up, but all the ones I did are Linux.

Bluesound.
Sonos.
MiniDsp doesn’t say what it uses on the internet, but says that it’s subject to the GPL. I can virtually guarantee you that it’s Linux. EDIT: According to the first link, MiniDSP uses Volumio. And Volumio is a Linux distribution.

EDIT 2: Yamaha Musiccast as well.

EDIT 3: While we're at it--and because for some reason I can't help myself--the X45 also uses the linux kernel and associated libraries.

 

[PeteL]

I didn’t look them all up, but all the ones I did are Linux.

Bluesound.
Sonos.
MiniDsp doesn’t say what it uses on the internet, but says that it’s subject to the GPL. I can virtually guarantee you that it’s Linux. EDIT: According to the first link, MiniDSP uses Volumio. And Volumio is a Linux distribution.

EDIT 2: Yamaha Musiccast as well.

EDIT 3: While we're at it--and because for some reason I can't help myself--the X45 also uses the linux kernel and associated libraries.

Thanks for the info and correction.

 

[ahofer]

Yeah, generally these guys use an existing stripped-down Linux distro and purpose modify.

 

[C. Cook]

I had looked into this manufacturer back when the unit came out. Is that slot on the top to the left of the display really the disc loading mechanism? Looks too small! I guess maybe I'm just getting too used to smaller form factor components.

 

[TonyJZX]

you can make out that this is the drive

https://www.newegg.com/lg-model-gs40n-dvd-burner/p/N82E16827136280

 

[OldHvyMec]

I have a 40X that has worked very well for what I use it for. It's a 2016 and actually has a decent phono section too. I like tone
control. That unit needs it with a few of the early CDs. My wife uses one with a C2500 for the tone control and the fact they are
both balanced. I also use fast SSD drives. I thought there was more than one slot. I have to look. It might be for a different feature
but it takes all of 3 minutes to swap drives. I'm pretty sure the 40X it has to be shutdown to swap drives too. My son is looking for
40X, because of the cost. 1000.00 usd is not uncommon. Maybe I'll wait for 1800.00 on the 45X and fix my son with the 40X, I'd like
to track it and see if it outlast me. The remote looks like it could control every feature. It's FULL of them too.

I'll say this about the unit, they have some heft and they look to be very well made. Considering mine was an updated factory recall.
That tiny slit for CDs was to keep the inside a lot cleaner. It can be tough to see at night though. It's not the fastest loading machine
either. I paid 1550.00 in 2016. It's not better than my older ES Sonys, BUT it does have some spiffy features the older units don't. Good
burner. I'm not an expert on it and very seldom use it. Considering I still have Plextor SCSI 1X burners somewhere.

 

[TonyJZX]

as far as i can remember hot swap sata isnt a thing at the consumer level - e-sata? i remember that but its deprecated

but I do like the fact it has a 3.5 bay so slot in an big cheap drive and rip away

i would note that to many even here, going with an ipad and chromecast and the like represents little in the way of UI learning... they would find it easy... "assumed knowledge"

learning a new UI for a device like this would represent some learning curve

like to me i would have no issue ripping flacs to a nas.... i have a pile of old laptops with drives but that's not something some people want to do

 

[shuppatsu]

8TB drives are regularly found for less than $100 on reddit/r/buildapcsales. At this SINAD I'd say 192 kbps MP3s are more than sufficient. So what's that? About 10 years of music with no repeats. Aye, that'll do.

 

[Graham849]

Internet radio with custom software has gone the way of the dodo. In Australia https://tivolihifi.com.au/products/cocktail-audio-x45-cd-ripper-music-server-streamer-2tb-hdd, the price in Australian $ is just crazy.

For a niche market it may have appeal, but not for moi.