Classic Audio MC Pro Phonostage Review

[EJ3]

Audio Frequencies​

A list of frequencies generated by things that make noises - like humans and musical instruments - but other stuff as well. As well as the fundamental frequency, most instruments have harmonics and overtones which are noted where known. But assembling this stuff is both tedious and incredibly difficult (it is unknown in some cases, horribly contentious in others or just buried in some obscure place even the search engines can't find). If you can add information use the links at the top or bottom of the page to email us. The world will be grateful. That's it. Grateful.

Note: We are now crediting reader input. Apologies to all previous contributors for the grievous oversight. Table augmented by contributions from - Thomas Wildman - many thanks.

Keyboard Instruments
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Piano	A0 (28 Hz) to C8 (4,186 Hz or 4.1 kHz)		60 - 100
Organ	C0 (16 Hz) to A9 (7,040 Hz)		35 - 110	some are said to be capable of C-1 (8 Hz)
Wind - without a reed
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Concert Flute	C4 (262 Hz) to B6 (1,976 Hz)			Some start at B3 (247 Hz)
French Horn	A2 (110 Hz) to A5 (880 Hz)
Picolo	C5 (523 Hz) to B7 (3,951 Hz)
Trombone
Tenor	E2 (82 Hz) to D5 (587 Hz)			Exceptionally F5 (698 Hz). Bb fundamental, sometimes F.
Contrabass	E1 (41 Hz) to E4 (330 Hz)			F fundamental, sometimes Bb.
Bass	C1 (33 Hz) to C5 (523 Hz)			Can start around Bb0 (A#0 - 29Hz). Bb fundamental.
Trumpet	E3 (165 Hz) to B5 (988 Hz)		55 - 95
Tuba (Bass)	F1 (44 Hz) to F4 (349 Hz)			Many play around Bb0 (A#0 - 29Hz)
String Instruments
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Violin	G3 (196 Hz) - G7 (3,136 Hz) (G-D-E-A) (or C8 (4,186 Hz?)	to 10 kHz	42 - 95
Viola	C3 (131 Hz) - D6 (1,175 Hz)
Cello	C2 (65 Hz) - B5 (988 Hz (C5))	to 8kHz
Double Bass	E1 (41 Hz) to B3 (247 Hz)	7kHz
Guitar (Acoustic)	E2 (82 Hz) to F6 (1,397 Hz)			Standard tuning of E A D G B E. (Open #6 82.407Hz, Open #1 369.63Hz, #1 25th Fret 1,396.91Hz (1.39 KHz)
Guitar (Bass)	4 string E1 (41 Hz) to C4 (262 Hz).	15kHz.		5 string Bass normally starts at B0 (31 Hz) but tops out at the same C4 value.
Guitar (Electric)	E2 (82 Hz) to F6 (1,397 Hz) (Open #6 82.41 Hz (E2), Open #1 369.63 Hz (E4), #1 25th Fret 1,396.91 Hz (1.39 kHz) (F6)		Unlimited!	Same range as for acoustic guitars but electric guitars have more harmonics and effects and these can go way over 20kHz. But, since you cannot hear them (unless you claim to be an audiophile) - who cares.
Note: When using a slide with a guitar the note frequency at any single fret position does not change from that produced by a finger but the instrument's timbre does, due to the reduced dampening effect of the slide over the human finger. In particular, the sustain (of the ADSR envelope) is much longer and there is more power in the higher harmonics. This latter effect may give the impression the note has a higher frequency. Slide technique, however, typically involves moving the slide back and forth on the frets to literally slide from one note to another thus continually changing frequency to produce its distinctive effect.
Percussion Instruments (things you hit)
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Drums (Timpani)	90Hz - 180Hz
Bass (Kick) Drum	60Hz - 100Hz		35 - 115	Some sources quote a low of 30Hz
Snare Drum	120 Hz - 250 Hz
Toms	60 Hz - 210 Hz
Cymbal - Hi-hat	3 kHz - 5 kHz		4 - 110
Xylophone	700 Hz - 3.5 kHz
Wind (Reed or Woodwind) Instruments
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Bandoneon	Descant (right) side G3 (196 Hz) to A6 (1,750 Hz). Bass (left) side C3 (131 Hz) to A5# (932 Hz)
Clarinet	E3 (165 Hz) to G6 (1,568 Hz)			C7 sometimes possible (2,093 Hz)
Saxophone
Tenor	G#2 (104 Hz) to E5 (659 Hz)			Bb fundamental.
Barritone	C2 (65 Hz) to A4 (440 Hz)			Eb fundamental.
Humans (You and me - well, sometimes in our case)
Instrument	Fundamental	Harmonics	dB(SPL)	Notes
Hi-Fi	50 Hz - 15 kHz			Originally thought to be the range of human hearing, and still may be depending on your age. Now revised as shown below.
Human Hearing	20Hz - 20kHz.			Unless you spent a lot of your adolescence in a disco or club in which case it is now probably squat. Audiophiles are supposed to be able to hear above 20KHz - or perhaps they only think they can. Over the age of 50 (some research suggests it may be even lower than that) most people are limited to a range of ~50 Hz to 15/16 kHz.
Hearing Sensitivity	300hz - 5 kHz			Humans are not uniformly sensitive to sound across the frequency spectrum. The most sensitivity is from approximately 300 Hz to 5 kHz with a particularly sensitive spot round 2 - 4 kHz (this phenomenon is described by the Fletcher-Munson curves). This means that for many instruments we can be more sensitive to the effects of the 2nd, 3rd or higher harmonics (and equivalent overtones) not the fundamental. A doubling in sound power/energy results in a 3 dB(SPL) increase, 10 times power sound power/energy results in 10 dB(SPL) increase but humans preceive 10 dB(SPL) as only double the loudness.
Sound Power			dB(SPL) rating for some common sounds. 10 - leaves rustling in a breeze 20 - whisper 30 - quiet conversation 50/55 - ambient office 70 - city street 80 - noisy office 100 - pneumatic drill (at 3m or 10 feet) 120 - jet take off 120 - pain threshold (See also Loudness and Sound Power)
Soprano	C4 (262 Hz) to C6 (1,047 Hz).
Mezzo-Soprano	A3 (110 Hz) to A5(880 Hz) (exceptions G3 (196 Hz) to C6(1,047 Hz))
Contralto	F3 (175 Hz) to F5 (698 Hz)
Countertenor	Male voice. Normally sings in the Contralto or Mezzo-Soprano range - exceptionally the soprano range.
Tenor	C3 (130 Hz) to C5 (523 Hz)			F5 (698 Hz) as extreme
Baritone	F2 (87 Hz) to F4 (349 Hz)
Bass	F2 (87 Hz) to E4 (330 Hz)	Harmonics to 12kHz

Frequencies, Harmonics and Under Tones​

This table was conributed by DJ Adi Abhishek. It is the most comprehensive we have ever seen and must have taken enormous work to put together. A truly remarkable (IOHO) piece of work.

The terms Under and Over tone are explained here. Ali quotes a frequency range for most sounds (different manufacturers, human characteristics) and then uses a single Fundamental Frequency for calculation of Under and Over tones.

We have made minor editing changes to Ali's originally supplied table and one significant change. The significant change is that the column headed Harmonics (2nd - 6th) was originally labelled Harmonic Over Tones. We made the change since, as harmonics, they all represent integer multiples of the Fundamental Frequency (a.k.a. 1st Harmonic). Overtones are not always integer multiples.

SOUND	FREQUENCY RANGE	FUNDAMENTAL FREQUENCY	HARMONICS (2nd - 6th)	HARMONIC UNDER TONES
Kick Drum	60	250	155	310	465	620	775	930	77.50	51.67	38.75	31.00	25.83
Toms	60	210	135	270	405	540	675	810	67.50	45	33.75	27.00	22.50
Snare	120	250	185	370	555	740	925	1110	92.50	61.67	46.25	37.00	30.83
Cymbal/Hi-hat	3000	5000	4000	8000	12000	16000	20000	24000	2000	1333.33	1000.00	800.00	666.67
Electric Guitar	82	1397	739.50	1479	2218.50	2958	3697.50	4437	369.75	246.50	184.88	147.90	123.25
Bass Guitar	41	262	151.50	303	454.5	606	757.50	909	75.75	50.50	37.88	30.30	25.25
Acoustic Guitar	82	1397	739.50	1479	2218.50	2958	3697.50	4437	369.75	246.50	184.88	147.90	123.25
Mandolin	136	1320	728	1456	2184	2912	3640	4368	364	242.67	182.00	145.60	121.33
Tenor Sax	104	659	381.50	763	1144.50	1526	1907.50	2289	190.75	127.17	95.38	76.30	63.58
Alto Sax	150	800	475	950	1425	1900	2375	2850	237.50	158.33	118.75	95.00	79.17
Harmonica Various	180	3100	1640	3280	4920	6560	8200	9840	820	546.67	410.00	328.00	273.33
Vocal (Baritone)	87	349	218	436	654	872	1090	1308	109	72.67	54.50	43.60	36.33
Vocal (Tenor)	130	523	326.50	653	979.50	1306	1632.50	1959	163.25	108.83	81.63	65.30	54.42
Vocal (Alto)	180	700	440	880	1320	1760	2200	2640	220	146.67	110.00	88.00	73.33
Vocal (Soprano)	250	1300	775	1550	2325	3100	3875	4650	387.50	258.33	193.75	155.00	129.17
Violin	196	4186	2191	4382	6573	8764	10955	13146	1095.50	730.33	547.75	438.20	365.17
Viola	315	1175	745	1490	2235	2980	3725	4470	372.50	248.33	186.25	149.00	124.17
Cello	65	988	526.50	1053	1579.50	2106	2632.50	3159	263.25	175.50	131.63	105.30	87.75
Double Bass	41	247	144	288	432	576	720	864	72	48	36.00	28.80	24.00
Piccolo	523	3951	2237	4474	6711	8948	11185	13422	1118.50	745.67	559.25	447.40	372.83
Flute	250	2500	1375	2750	4125	5500	6875	8250	687.50	458.33	343.75	275.00	229.17
Oboe	225	1500	862.50	1725	2587.50	3450	4312.50	5175	431.25	287.50	215.63	172.50	143.75
Clarinet	165	1568	866.50	1733	2599.50	3466	4332.50	5199	433.25	288.83	216.63	173.30	144.42
Accordion	180	1000	590	1180	1770	2360	2950	3540	295	196.67	147.50	118.00	98.33
Bassoon	60	620	340	680	1020	1360	1700	2040	170	113.33	85.00	68.00	56.67
Trumpet	165	988	576.50	1153	1729.50	2306	2882.50	3459	288.25	192.17	144.13	115.30	96.08
Trombone	60	500	280	560	840	1120	1400	1680	140	93.33	70.00	56.00	46.67
French Horn	110	880	495	990	1485	1980	2475	2970	247.50	165	123.75	99.00	82.50
Tuba (Bass)	44	349	196.50	393	589.5	786	982.50	1179	98.25	65.50	49.13	39.30	32.75
Harp	30	7000	3515	7030	10545	14060	17575	21090	1757.50	1171.67	878.75	703.00	585.83
Harpsichord	40	1500	770	1540	2310	3080	3850	4620	385	256.67	192.50	154.00	128.33
Piano	28	4186	2107	4214	6321	8428	10535	12642	1053.50	702.33	526.75	421.40	351.17
Pipe Organ	16	7040	3528	7056	10584	14112	17640	21168	1764	1176	882.00	705.60	588.00
Keyboard / Synth	20	4000	2010	4020	6030	8040	10050	12060	1005	670	502.50	402.00	335.00
Female Voice	250	1000	625	1250	1875	2500	3125	3750	312.50	208.33	156.25	125.00	104.17
Male Voice	100	800	450	900	1350	1800	2250	2700	225	150	112.50	90.00	75.00
Sub Bass	16	60	38	76	114	152	190	228	19	12.67	9.50	7.60	6.33
Concert Flute	262	1976	1119	2238	3357	4476	5595	6714	559.50	373	279.75	223.80	186.50
Xylophone	700	3500	2100	4200	6300	8400	10500	12600	1050	700	525.00	420.00	350.00
Timpani (Drum)	90	180	135	270	405	540	675	810	67.50	45	33.75	27.00	22.50
Contra Bass	41	330	185.50	371	556.50	742	927.50	1113	92.75	61.83	46.38	37.10	30.92
Bass	33	330	181.50	363	544.50	726	907.50	1089	90.75	60.50	45.38	36.30	30.25
Baritone Sax	65	440	252.50	505	757.50	1010	1262.50	1515	126.25	84.17	63.13	50.50	42.08
Soprano	262	1047	654.50	1309	1963.50	2618	3272.50	3927	327.25	218.17	163.63	130.90	109.08
Mezzo Soprano	110	880	495	990	1485	1980	2475	2970	247.50	165	123.75	99.00	82.50
Contra Alto	175	698	436.50	873	1309.50	1746	2182.50	2619	218.25	145.50	109.13	87.30	72.75

Another addition to this regarding the lowest note on a pipe organ:
Only in the two "secular" organs (one in the Atlantic City Boardwalk Hall and and the other in Sydney Town Hall) can you hear a real 64' pipe with full range (8Hz).
This CD has this warning:
WARNING! This recording presents the full low-frequency information generated by The Wanamaker Grand Court Organ at Lord & Taylor, Philadelphia. Specially designed and modified equipment has been used so that no low-frequency roll-off has been introduced at any stage. The low-frequency content of the recording accurately reflects the actual range of the instrument down to the open 32' pipes (producing a 16Hz fundamental). The naturally high levels of bass information, and exceptionally wide dynamic range, contribute immeasurably to the sonic excitement of this recording. However, on first hearing please exercise great caution in setting the volume to establish a playback level that is safe for both your equipment and your hearing.

 

[Michael Fidler]

Just a heads-up that I took some earlier advice and decided that I need a little price bump to get some time back and counter inflation, so I can crack on with the next version!

Also, I think I should start trying to make a video a week now that I've got some 600 subscribers on the YT channel with only 12 videos over the last 4+ years. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 

[DSJR]

Crypto currency? Hey, most of us oldies can only just about deal with Paypal FFS...

 

[Michael Fidler]

Crypto currency? Hey, most of us oldies can only just about deal with Paypal FFS...

Honestly, once you give it a go, it's not that bad - and near instant. I'm trying to radicalise as many people as possible here !

Paypal is truly awful on the seller side, though, especially if you're taking payments in foreign currencies. Hopefully the allure of the 10% discount will get those oldies out of their comfort zones.

 

[ban25]

If I can offer some advice:

1. Work up your Bill of Materials per product offered
2. Add to this labor cost per unit (if it's just you, compute an appropriate hourly rate you're happy with -- this is your salary, not your business profit)
3. Add in R&D costs, amortized over unit volume per production run
4. Add in fulfillment costs
5. Finally, add an appropriate margin for your business. Given the niche enthusiast market that these products cater to, I suggest a margin of no less than 25%.

Now that you've arrived at this per-unit cost, which can be re-evaluated on a per-quarter basis as the BoM and cost of labor fluctuates, let's consider some ways to scale your business and let you focus on the fun (product design). You don't have to do all of these at once.

1. Apply for a small business loan from a local bank such that you can start to buy component supplies in larger quantities and realize some bulk discounts
2. Investigate avenues to contract out portions of the production process (I'm not an electronics manufacturing expect, but I've heard of https://www.pcbway.com/)
3. Likewise, investigate contracted solutions for inventory management and fulfillment (3PL). There's a partner listing site that might be helpful (https://3peel.com/)
3. Hire on 1-2 part-time employees (university kids, etc.) that can be trained up for assembly
4. Hire an operations manager, preferably someone with experience in operations of small-scale manufacturing. This person can handle a lot of the day-to-day "boring stuff."
5. As your business grows, consider adding more "upmarket" products so that you can grow margin -- for instance, units with a higher-end chassis could easily sell with a 50% margin, if not more

Most importantly, each of these actions will take one more thing off your plate so you can focus on the part of the business that you enjoy!

 

[EJ3]

If I can offer some advice:

5. Finally, add an appropriate margin for your business. Given the niche enthusiast market that these products cater to, I suggest a margin of no less than 25%.

Now that you've arrived at this per-unit cost, which can be re-evaluated on a per-quarter basis as the BoM and cost of labor fluctuates, let's consider some ways to scale your business and let you focus on the fun (product design). You don't have to do all of these at once.

Most importantly, each of these actions will take one more thing off your plate so you can focus on the part of the business that you enjoy!

In the first section, item 5, I would up to between 30-33%. Because, after all, we are paying for your KNOWLEDGE (not just your physical labor).

 

[ban25]

In the first section, item 5, I would up to between 30-33%. Because, after all, we are paying for your KNOWLEDGE (not just your physical labor).

+1

Also, R&D costs should be broken out separately from operations, assembly, fulfillment, etc.

 

[EJ3]

Honestly, once you give it a go, it's not that bad - and near instant. I'm trying to radicalise as many people as possible here !

Paypal is truly awful on the seller side, though, especially if you're taking payments in foreign currencies. Hopefully the allure of the 10% discount will get those oldies out of their comfort zones.

First we have to be able to afford our bills. Then we can try to figure crypto out.
I have had to plan my budget for a year so that I will be able to buy one of your MM units sometime the first 1/4 next year.

 

[Michael Fidler]

If I can offer some advice:

1. Work up your Bill of Materials per product offered
2. Add to this labor cost per unit (if it's just you, compute an appropriate hourly rate you're happy with -- this is your salary, not your business profit)
3. Add in R&D costs, amortized over unit volume per production run
4. Add in fulfillment costs
5. Finally, add an appropriate margin for your business. Given the niche enthusiast market that these products cater to, I suggest a margin of no less than 25%.

Now that you've arrived at this per-unit cost, which can be re-evaluated on a per-quarter basis as the BoM and cost of labor fluctuates, let's consider some ways to scale your business and let you focus on the fun (product design). You don't have to do all of these at once.

1. Apply for a small business loan from a local bank such that you can start to buy component supplies in larger quantities and realize some bulk discounts
2. Investigate avenues to contract out portions of the production process (I'm not an electronics manufacturing expect, but I've heard of https://www.pcbway.com/)
3. Likewise, investigate contracted solutions for inventory management and fulfillment (3PL). There's a partner listing site that might be helpful (https://3peel.com/)
3. Hire on 1-2 part-time employees (university kids, etc.) that can be trained up for assembly
4. Hire an operations manager, preferably someone with experience in operations of small-scale manufacturing. This person can handle a lot of the day-to-day "boring stuff."
5. As your business grows, consider adding more "upmarket" products so that you can grow margin -- for instance, units with a higher-end chassis could easily sell with a 50% margin, if not more

Most importantly, each of these actions will take one more thing off your plate so you can focus on the part of the business that you enjoy!

Some very good ideas here. I did the cost thing at the top in 2022, but needed to re-denominate to some asset class that responds to real inflation/liquidity. My plan is looking like...

1. Draw up SMT versions of all successful current products with MELF technology and single-piece aluminium enclosures made of milled ingots with the PCBs mounted on L-plates that can just slide underneath - with the direct model there is no need to mark-up the parts cost too much and the higher-quality enclosures can attract a nice premium.
2. Move to somewhere like UAE with plenty of local infrastructure + a good aluminium industry and get a starter SMT setup (small pick and place machine + small reflow oven - I only need to be doing 10 boards or so per day and have seen this is practice in smaller companies, plus there's much better quality control).
3. Hire someone to run the SMT line and do assembly + testing which will be automated on an AP or similar by that point - not a good idea for the UK for reasons that have made themselves obvious to me working at smaller companies.
4. Hire someone to manage stock levels/forecasts and sales, possibly with the help of a large language model to answer e-mails with the huge number of previous exchanges as reference (all sent mail to be approved beforehand), maintaining the direct-to-worldwide model.
5. Focus my own efforts entirely on the development of new products, with new circuitry and parts for all price ranges, with a high-end range that features very high performance indeed.
6. Create content around all of this: videos, articles, anything that leads to the website and will act as fodder for the kind of AI search tools we're increasingly seeing that summarise such content. High levels of detail + continuous improvement and investigation of all kinds of parts.

I spend far too much time soldering, packing boxes, answering the same e-mail questions and compiling little debunks of all kinds of nonsense that I should be incorporating into complete content rather than e-mail replies. It's time to re-focus on the things that created this situation in the first place and apply those to a more scalable, more efficient model than 27-year-old me in 2022 trying to find out what I could do with a mid-four-figure budget and a spare room. The performance at the moment is very good, but far more labour-intensive than it could otherwise be if I had space for custom/quick packaging, SMT etc.

I'm already doing a fair bit on this at the moment, learning to use new CAD software for 3D design and hopefully learning how to make video content. Towards the end of this year I'm going to be running out all of my parts, finishing up in the UK, and finally getting out to where I need to be to really take this to the next level. Big power amps, maybe even speakers, and a really nice pre-amp/headphone amp need to be my next move.

 

[Michael Fidler]

First we have to be able to afford our bills. Then we can try to figure crypto out.
I have had to plan my budget for a year so that I will be able to buy one of your MM units sometime the first 1/4 next year.

Fiat payments are still an option, but I want to open the possibility up now as the rate of adoption is fairly high. Crypto is just a way to get a 10% discount as I'm so thoroughly sick of the issues with other methods... If I could have no more orders for the rest of the year I would be fine with that as I could refocus on R&D/content creation.

 

[manisandher]

Towards the end of this year I'm going to be running out all of my parts, finishing up in the UK, and finally getting out to where I need to be to really take this to the next level.

It's a real shame that you can't do this and remain based in the UK. The amount of talent drain I seeing flowing out of the UK is phenomenal (my two teenage boys are already thinking about where else they might want to live). We need all the help we can get, and world-class SMEs are crucial. Incentivising talent retention and attraction should be one of the highest priorities for the (any) government.

Since my father arrived in the UK in the mid '50s with just 3 pounds in his pocket (the max the Indian government would allow at the time), it's provided us with so many opportunities. No handouts, just opportunities. I really hope we can turn the situation you face around... and do remain optimistic that we can.

On a more positive note, I continue to love my MM Pro, which sounds absolutely phenomenal with my Decca!

Mani.

 

[Endibol]

Some very good ideas here. I did the cost thing at the top in 2022, but needed to re-denominate to some asset class that responds to real inflation/liquidity. My plan is looking like...

1. Draw up SMT versions of all successful current products with MELF technology and single-piece aluminium enclosures made of milled ingots with the PCBs mounted on L-plates that can just slide underneath - with the direct model there is no need to mark-up the parts cost too much and the higher-quality enclosures can attract a nice premium.
2. Move to somewhere like UAE with plenty of local infrastructure + a good aluminium industry and get a starter SMT setup (small pick and place machine + small reflow oven - I only need to be doing 10 boards or so per day and have seen this is practice in smaller companies, plus there's much better quality control).
3. Hire someone to run the SMT line and do assembly + testing which will be automated on an AP or similar by that point - not a good idea for the UK for reasons that have made themselves obvious to me working at smaller companies.
4. Hire someone to manage stock levels/forecasts and sales, possibly with the help of a large language model to answer e-mails with the huge number of previous exchanges as reference (all sent mail to be approved beforehand), maintaining the direct-to-worldwide model.
5. Focus my own efforts entirely on the development of new products, with new circuitry and parts for all price ranges, with a high-end range that features very high performance indeed.
6. Create content around all of this: videos, articles, anything that leads to the website and will act as fodder for the kind of AI search tools we're increasingly seeing that summarise such content. High levels of detail + continuous improvement and investigation of all kinds of parts.

I spend far too much time soldering, packing boxes, answering the same e-mail questions and compiling little debunks of all kinds of nonsense that I should be incorporating into complete content rather than e-mail replies. It's time to re-focus on the things that created this situation in the first place and apply those to a more scalable, more efficient model than 27-year-old me in 2022 trying to find out what I could do with a mid-four-figure budget and a spare room. The performance at the moment is very good, but far more labour-intensive than it could otherwise be if I had space for custom/quick packaging, SMT etc.

I'm already doing a fair bit on this at the moment, learning to use new CAD software for 3D design and hopefully learning how to make video content. Towards the end of this year I'm going to be running out all of my parts, finishing up in the UK, and finally getting out to where I need to be to really take this to the next level. Big power amps, maybe even speakers, and a really nice pre-amp/headphone amp need to be my next move.

Hi Michael, are you sure you want to spend precious time on video's? This will only generate more orders and I get the impression that you are already pretty overloaded right now.. If I were you I would spend the time on increasing your companies efficiency making sure you can get out more gear at lower cost prices to ensure a solid basis for the future. And yes, I agree with some others, you should look at for some helping hands. Anyway I wish you lot's of success in this exciting endeavour!

 

[Michael Fidler]

It's a real shame that you can't do this and remain based in the UK. The amount of talent drain I seeing flowing out of the UK is phenomenal (my two teenage boys are already thinking about where else they might want to live). We need all the help we can get, and world-class SMEs are crucial. Incentivising talent retention and attraction should be one of the highest priorities for the (any) government.

Since my father arrived in the UK in the mid '50s with just 3 pounds in his pocket (the max the Indian government would allow at the time), it's provided us with so many opportunities. No handouts, just opportunities. I really hope we can turn the situation you face around... and do remain optimistic that we can.

On a more positive note, I continue to love my MM Pro, which sounds absolutely phenomenal with my Decca!

Mani.

Unfortunately the United Kingdom of Opportunity is well and truly dead... When you work out the numbers, there's not any point growing the business here. Good to hear that you're still doing well with the MM Pro!

Hi Michael, are you sure you want to spend precious time on video's? This will only generate more orders and I get the impression that you are already pretty overloaded right now.. If I were you I would spend the time on increasing your companies efficiency making sure you can get out more gear at lower cost prices to ensure a solid basis for the future. And yes, I agree with some others, you should look at for some helping hands. Anyway I wish you lot's of success in this exciting endeavour!

I appreciate that point, but I need to start improving my content-generating abilities now for when I have quantity later and everything is revised/more efficient that it is at the moment. I am planning to increase the friction by abandoning card payments, which I'm hoping will knock about 20% off my current order volume in addition to the price increase and give me a bit of headroom to properly release the S78 and S20 products, as well as building the first prototypes for the next generation. If I have enough orders, then I should be focussing on new projects and other avenues of getting noticed rather than just assembling things...

 

[morillon]

So no musical content at 30 Hz and below. Than, -0.7dB@30Hz and -3dB@23Hz high-pass filter in Classic Audio MC Pro is fully justified.

no...
you shouldn't be so assertive ;-)

not to mention the large organs..., the large concert pianos, the large harp ( seem some time somes biggests instruments in cymbalum familly) or the contrabassoon go below or near 30hz
but in fact a 25hz is a better idea (and respecting in minimum their first harmonic if a brutal "cut" ;-) )
;-)

 

[Mnyb]

There might be musical content <25Hz but thats not the point ?

* can this actually be cut on an LP , i doubt .
* are LP playback equipment capable of handling this mechanically if there , probaly not hence the high pass choosen for the application .
* the LP system may need this cutoff anyway even if such bass is not in the program material due to the mechanics of the system resonances etc. its an inherit limitation of LP playback ? "dont even try" . You must have this HPF to handle these problem

If these bass frequencies are cut to the LP master which I doubt the playback system will struggle with recovering this anyway and make mostly subsonic garbage.

The actual master may have all kinds of bass . but it cant survive the chain of LP mastering cutting pressing and playback ?

If I understood mr fidlers explanation ?

i think its the older equipment that's at fault here , having defeatable rumble filters or none at all is just wishfull thinking ?

 

[EJ3]

There might be musical content <25Hz but thats not the point ?

* can this actually be cut on an LP , i doubt .
* are LP playback equipment capable of handling this mechanically if there , probaly not hence the high pass choosen for the application .
* the LP system may need this cutoff anyway even if such bass is not in the program material due to the mechanics of the system resonances etc. its an inherit limitation of LP playback ? "dont even try" . You must have this HPF to handle these problem

If these bass frequencies are cut to the LP master which I doubt the playback system will struggle with recovering this anyway and make mostly subsonic garbage.

The actual master may have all kinds of bass . but it cant survive the chain of LP mastering cutting pressing and playback ?

If I understood mr fidlers explanation ?

i think its the older equipment that's at fault here , having defeatable rumble filters or none at all is just wishfull thinking ?

My 1977 APT/Holman Preamp Phono section has this that measures like this:
Phono Preamplifier measurements top

measured the PHONO 1 preamp at the TAPE 1 output. set the phono preamp to 47 kΩ and 50 pF, and drove it from the 5Ω source impedance of the R&S UPL.

Gain at 1 kHz is 35.64 dB left, and 36.03 dB right channel, an average numerical gain of 61.91x. (sample 91: 35.65/35.83 dB.)

A-weighted noise, with inputs terminated by the 5Ω source impedance of the R&S UPL, measures -86.36 dBV left, -90.30 dBV right. (Unterminated, noise measures about -80 dBV. Sample 91 measures -91.6/91.8 dBV A.)

Maximum input level at 1 kHz: 140 mV RMS at 0.1% THD, which leads to an 8.7V RMS output.

And a filter that does this:

15 Hz filter (only) response.​

The low-frequency response is the same with the tone controls either defeated or engaged, for all inputs and all outputs.

The 15 Hz filter is selected with a rear-panel switch.

It's -1/2 dB at 20 Hz, -1 dB at 17.5 Hz, -2 dB at 15 Hz, -3 dB at 14 Hz, - 5 dB at 12 Hz and -10 dB at 10 Hz.

So: NOT WISHFUL THINKING>

 

[EJ3]

I think its the older equipment that's at fault here , having defeatable rumble filters or none at all is just wishfull thinking ?

Perhaps some reading may help:
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images...phic_Preamplifiers_Holman_Audio_July_1977.pdf

Dynamic Range Requirements of Phonographic Preamplifiers​

Phonographic Preamplifiers. Tomlinson Holman*. WHITE PAPER

 

[Michael Fidler]

Perhaps some reading may help:
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images...phic_Preamplifiers_Holman_Audio_July_1977.pdf

Dynamic Range Requirements of Phonographic Preamplifiers​

Phonographic Preamplifiers. Tomlinson Holman*. WHITE PAPER

Tomlinson Holman is the real OG!

 

[DSJR]

My 1977 APT/Holman Preamp Phono section has this that measures like this:
Phono Preamplifier measurements top

measured the PHONO 1 preamp at the TAPE 1 output. set the phono preamp to 47 kΩ and 50 pF, and drove it from the 5Ω source impedance of the R&S UPL.

Gain at 1 kHz is 35.64 dB left, and 36.03 dB right channel, an average numerical gain of 61.91x. (sample 91: 35.65/35.83 dB.)

A-weighted noise, with inputs terminated by the 5Ω source impedance of the R&S UPL, measures -86.36 dBV left, -90.30 dBV right. (Unterminated, noise measures about -80 dBV. Sample 91 measures -91.6/91.8 dBV A.)

Maximum input level at 1 kHz: 140 mV RMS at 0.1% THD, which leads to an 8.7V RMS output.

View attachment 393063
And a filter that does this:

15 Hz filter (only) response.​

The low-frequency response is the same with the tone controls either defeated or engaged, for all inputs and all outputs.

The 15 Hz filter is selected with a rear-panel switch.

It's -1/2 dB at 20 Hz, -1 dB at 17.5 Hz, -2 dB at 15 Hz, -3 dB at 14 Hz, - 5 dB at 12 Hz and -10 dB at 10 Hz.

So: NOT WISHFUL THINKING>

The lf filter described seems to be left over from the high-compliance pickup era, where arm-cartridge resonances were too low in frequency (often well below 12Hz). Pickups do tend to response-lift below 22Hz or so (judging by the numerous charts I've seen - I haven't checked yet, but all my old HiFi Choices seem to be on the worldradiohistory site - thanks @restorer-john, I have several winters' reading set up now )

Here's a typical test on a once extremely popular chealie (2M Red is the replacement I believe) - the OM20. See how the response in a medium mass arm starts to rise at 30Hz... There's a big introduction describing the tests, what discs and loadings were used and the tonearm (LVX) which wasn't really able enoigh really for the better pickups tested, although entirely suitable for most if not all of the MMs tested.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hi-Fi-Choice/1983-1989/Hi-Fi%20Choice%20Iss.%20038%20Cartridges%20&%20Accessories%201984.pdf

Below the universal 'UK Flat-Earth' reference from th emid 80s before the Troika arrived - Linn Karma. Note the severe LF lift before the plotter or test disc cuts off in addition to the hf fall-off, so different to the ruler-flat digital response which caused consternation back then -

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hi-Fi-Choice/1983-1989/Hi-Fi%20Choice%20Iss.%20038%20Cartridges%20&%20Accessories%201984.pdf

Anyway, further reading will show how necessary a carefully designed low filter actually is, as amps and current-trend small speakers simply don't want or need those frequencies (cone-flap and so on)...

 

[DSJR]

Some very good ideas here. I did the cost thing at the top in 2022, but needed to re-denominate to some asset class that responds to real inflation/liquidity. My plan is looking like...

1. Draw up SMT versions of all successful current products with MELF technology and single-piece aluminium enclosures made of milled ingots with the PCBs mounted on L-plates that can just slide underneath - with the direct model there is no need to mark-up the parts cost too much and the higher-quality enclosures can attract a nice premium.
2. Move to somewhere like UAE with plenty of local infrastructure + a good aluminium industry and get a starter SMT setup (small pick and place machine + small reflow oven - I only need to be doing 10 boards or so per day and have seen this is practice in smaller companies, plus there's much better quality control).
3. Hire someone to run the SMT line and do assembly + testing which will be automated on an AP or similar by that point - not a good idea for the UK for reasons that have made themselves obvious to me working at smaller companies.
4. Hire someone to manage stock levels/forecasts and sales, possibly with the help of a large language model to answer e-mails with the huge number of previous exchanges as reference (all sent mail to be approved beforehand), maintaining the direct-to-worldwide model.
5. Focus my own efforts entirely on the development of new products, with new circuitry and parts for all price ranges, with a high-end range that features very high performance indeed.
6. Create content around all of this: videos, articles, anything that leads to the website and will act as fodder for the kind of AI search tools we're increasingly seeing that summarise such content. High levels of detail + continuous improvement and investigation of all kinds of parts.

I spend far too much time soldering, packing boxes, answering the same e-mail questions and compiling little debunks of all kinds of nonsense that I should be incorporating into complete content rather than e-mail replies. It's time to re-focus on the things that created this situation in the first place and apply those to a more scalable, more efficient model than 27-year-old me in 2022 trying to find out what I could do with a mid-four-figure budget and a spare room. The performance at the moment is very good, but far more labour-intensive than it could otherwise be if I had space for custom/quick packaging, SMT etc.

I'm already doing a fair bit on this at the moment, learning to use new CAD software for 3D design and hopefully learning how to make video content. Towards the end of this year I'm going to be running out all of my parts, finishing up in the UK, and finally getting out to where I need to be to really take this to the next level. Big power amps, maybe even speakers, and a really nice pre-amp/headphone amp need to be my next move.

One small comment if I may - if you go the milled-from-solid kind of presentation, I suspect you'll push the prices of these boxes through the roof into an increasingly fickle and, dare I suggest it, ignorant market where looks and often falsely perceived 'sound quality' rules still over proper design.....

Okay, I admit it, I'm a closet fan of Schiit's case offerings. They've gone through a few evolutions of their simple casework and I'd suggest it works a treat visually and simplicity. Could a variant of that idea be used here in the UK, or have we totally lost the plot here now.

I simply don't have the funds to even consider lavish looking boxes (many out there are sadly, swanky trinkets sold for a lot of money each box), so a simple utilitarian presentation suits me fine (the main gear hides away in a cabinet anyway ). Maybe your customers *want* something more 'eye-catchingly stylish and fair-do's if they do (E.A.R did this to advantage but hang the UK selling prices).