Class d keeps improving

[mhardy6647]

So far initial impressions of setup:
- horrible manual that skips over many information needed
- wont play any sound out of of the box. By design. You must first connect to internet to enable that this amp plays any sound. Says so in the manual. So basically its data sellout.
- You must first connect the amp to either Apple airplay or Google Home. Harman has no control or menu app for it. Again data sellout.
- no way to connect this to wi-fi through pairing. So you must connect it to ethernet, in order to get it to play sound via Airplay. And that still does not get it properly connect it to your home wifi.

Did you know know this before you purchased/aquired the device?

 

[PeterOo]

I’ve just received this Harman Kardon Citation Amp and installed it.

So far initial impressions of setup:
- horrible manual that skips over many information needed
- wont play any sound out of of the box. By design. You must first connect to internet to enable that this amp plays any sound. Says so in the manual. So basically its data sellout.
- You must first connect the amp to either Apple airplay or Google Home. Harman has no control or menu app for it. Again data sellout.

I can imagine Google using your data to profile you, but I am not aware of Apple or HK selling your data. Have you notices suspicious network activity other than the Amp checking for firmware updates?
The main feature is that it provides digital in for TV and chromecast or Airplay, so if you do not want to use these services maybe this Amp is not for You.

Having connected it to airplay via ethernet, it will now play sound. But once I remove the ethernet, it is not connected to the wifi still

I personally had no problem setting it up over wifi using Airplay or Google home. Not sure what went wrong, but it is not a limitation by design.

Quick superficial impression was the sound was clean and it had no problem powering my fairly power-hungry Sonus Fabre toy Tower speakers, which run around 87 db sensitivity and go down from a nominal 8 ohm to close to 4 in some circumstances.

I can’t wait for Amir to test one. It is the cheapest Axign amp at the moment.

Will do more listening tonight. But overall am just horrified by the way this product was crippled. I dont mind not having an LCD but being so app dependent makes this a planned obsolesence risk. Will have to try to get access to the web control and determine if this stays or gets sent back for a refund.

The webinterface is indeed not very convenient, but unless you want to change treble you do not need it, really.
Not sure what you mean with app dependent. There is no app, other than the app you use to play music. I love the fact that I can play music from the native Spotify or Apple music app. but that is only if you will be using Airplay or Chromecast I suppose.

i must say the firmware still has a few bugs though.

 

[Chrispy]

Wow what a surprise...

 

[EB1000]

The max PWM switching frequency is not even mentioned in the chip's or amp's documentation, which is usually an indication of another lame 400kHz class-D... wake me up when someone reaches 1MHz. 'Till then' I'll keep my Hypex NC400. I doubt if HK know something that Purifi/Hypex and Icepower don't...

 

[PeterOo]

The max PWM switching frequency is not even mentioned in the chip's or amp's documentation, which is usually an indication of another lame 400kHz class-D... wake me up when someone reaches 1MHz. 'Till then' I'll keep my Hypex NC400. I doubt if HK know something that Purifi/Hypex and Icepower don't...

HK just used the expertise of Axign to implement their digital feedback loop technology. It is discussed in the first posts in this thread.

Indeed no reason to sell your Hypex, but I would be interested to see how the Citation Amp holds up. And it has Airplay and Chromecast and sells for only 500 euro.

 

[tom_tom]

I was hyped for that amp, really. I've listen to it and I liked it but i've read a lot of complains for heating. Pitty, becouse functionality and price is really attractive. For now I just bought Topping MX5 to second system.

 

[Hammerhead]

Just made an account to share my experience and give you some feedback about this amp.
context: I was looking for an airplay2 class d with enough power for peaks. HDMI arc is a big plus.
not much On the market as far as I know: the 2019 Sonos amp and the hk citation.
Speaker is a 3 way passive monitor rated 4 Ohms.
Dipping at 3.2ohms around 150-200 Hz topping at 32Ohms around 1.5kHz.

both tested with digital input hdmi and airplay 2.
after some times with the Sonos amp i can understand comments saying it is bright. This amp is very lean and lack some bass when listen at low level. I guess this could explain why loudness is on by default.

citation amp is much more composed and balanced.low to high and does not induce an overly bright sound
Maybe it is a bit too generous bass-wise.

end of comparison for now. Should you want some subjective statement feel free.

about the citation
on the plus side, sound was very good and clean. Like I didn’t need anything more. I wish I could have kept it but it will go back.

first, when played via AirPlay some piano key strokes provoke audible distortion. For example the very beginning of true Colors by Ane Brun. Le canon de pachelbel by Pierre-Yves Plat.
the issue is not present on the digital inputs. Tested via hdmi Apple TV 4k.
but I can’t justify this kind of work around.

second the volume control should be more linear. not enough steps. From step 3 to 4 is like more than twice the volume.
it certainly does not help that my speakers are 95dB/m/2.8v (or 92/1m/1w). Should be less of a problem for lower sensitive speakers.

third the random audio glitch
some plops and cracks appears. I could not specifically pinpoint what is the cause. Seems related to either a change of track or volume adjustment. This not repeatable. Aka random. at one point I was wondering if all of this was due to the axign processor not fast enough doing it’s thing.

last: the heat. When saying this amp should sound like a class A, I was not thinking it will go as hot as said class A.
this is winter. house temp is around 20 degree Celsius. After a good hour on a night session the amp is very hot. And I can hear a fan going on for 2 seconds every 5-10 seconds. placing something under to elevate the amp helps. Best trick is to put it vertically on its sides or on its front. Case gets much cooler quickly and fan stays off.
Seems not enough time was spent on cooling system.
it is quite a disappointment when compared to the Sonos that gets barely hot with a passive cooling system.

or the citation amp does not go well with the kind of load my speakers are, and the Sonos is okay.

i checked with Harman customer support and they confirmed the amp should not be used with loads under 4Ohms. Not sur about that as I think manufacturers often stat this to avoid some claim.

i really liked the product on its core purpose: a (very) good sounding device. But there are unfortunately too much drawbacks at the moment.

hope it helps in some way. Really sorry to log in and being mostly negative toward a product. But I think I had to share.
maybe we’ll know more when one of you will do a proper review

thank you all for your participation on this incredibly valuable site

David.

edit: added load chart for the speaker.

My citation amp has given up just outside warranty it’s stuck on subwoofer mode so doesn’t send base signals to speakers. Tried resetting numerous times to no avail

 

[Hammerhead]

Sooo... after some hours now testing with music and other content playing but also idle with speakers connected and playing content normal and idle without load or content being played I've come to the conclusion that this amp has a lot of heat going on by itself from new state.

That being said i have already been sending email to Harman support for more info about this amp condition along with the fact that you cannot use optical and coaxial while hdmi is being used as these three inputs summed internally, I've already tried it and unfortunately that's the case, why they make it this way is beyond me but hopefully something that maybe is possible to modifying through an update later on if we're lucky.

So my final thoughts about this amp is that it's a sleek designed amp and packs great power through out, but I'm worried about the heat when using this over the years and along with those inputs not being able to be split and used to different devices at a time but only one being prioritized.

For now I'm keeping this and have some Klipsch RP280F that is going with it so time will tell if it's going to keep up.

My citation amp has given up just outside warranty it’s stuck on subwoofer mode so doesn’t send base signals to speakers. Tried resetting numerous times to no avail

 

[antcollinet]

My citation amp has given up just outside warranty it’s stuck on subwoofer mode so doesn’t send base signals to speakers. Tried resetting numerous times to no avail

I suggest you contact HK support.

 

[Hammerhead]

I suggest you contact HK support.

I have they won’t help . They gave me the repair shop number they use for repairs was told if it was motherboard it costs £400 plus vat

 

[antcollinet]

I have they won’t help . They gave me the repair shop number they use for repairs was told if it was motherboard it costs £400 plus vat

Where are you based? If UK or EU, you might have rights beyond the standard 1 year warranty.

 

[Hammerhead]

I’m in uk . It had 2 years warranty they offered extra 2 months but sadly it is 2 weeks over the 2 month extension

 

[antcollinet]

I’m in uk . It had 2 years warranty they offered extra 2 months but sadly it is 2 weeks over the 2 month extension

Who did you purchase from. You could try making a claim against the seller (your contract is with them) under consumer rights act, which gives rights significantly longer than standard warranties in certain circumstances. Thought the supplier is likely to put the onus on you to prove there was an inherent defect. Calm persistence would be required. And you are in the game of proving that the quality is not "of the standard which a reasonable person would consider to be satisfactory"

Some retailers are more responsive to this than others. Many will just tell you to go away and prove it. Though others may respond to a well reasoned argument. And that is the key here. Ranting will get you nowhere.

It is almost certainly not worth taking it as far as small claims court - unless you treat that as fun activity.

See:

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Which?

The Consumer Rights Act protects you in almost all purchases you make. Here we explain what it means when buying goods or services

www.which.co.uk

and:

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Explanatory Notes

www.legislation.gov.uk

Or you could just cut your losses and move on.

 

[Hammerhead]

I bought it from Peter Tyson. I will give them a call and see what they say . I won’t go too far with it as I will probably have to cut my losses as you say.
Thanks for the advice though much appreciated

 

[egellings]

I think that class D has gotten so good that improving it would not be audible anymore.

 

[antcollinet]

I think that class D has gotten so good that improving it would not be audible anymore.

We just need MOAR POWER IGOR....MOAR POWER!


Sorry - got a little carried away there.

 

[fpitas]

The nostalgia for class AB amuses me greatly.

 

[egellings]

We just need MOAR POWER IGOR....MOAR POWER!


Sorry - got a little carried away there.

Class D makes that easy; heck, just put gigantic output switches across the raw link voltage derived from 480ac and let 'er rip. Bring the power company to its knees.

 

[antcollinet]

Class D makes that easy; heck, just put gigantic output switches across the raw link voltage derived from 480ac and let 'er rip. Bring the power company to its knees.

Yea - you coulg generate around 470V RMS output signal from those rails. A mere... err... 55kW+ into 4 ohms.

 

[egellings]

Yea - you coulg generate around 470V RMS output signal from those rails. A mere... err... 55kW+ into 4 ohms.

What I have to laugh at is automotive super-audio--thousands of watts in a tiny room that a vehicle, however large, would provide. It would not be possible to sit in there and crank that baby up. After the eardrums would pop, the brain would pulverize, and internal organs would dissolve. I wonder why anyone would want anything so powerful that they dare not use it at full strength. I'm at a loss.