-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Class D amp long term reliability
- Thread starter sophie smith
- Start date
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 2,451
- Likes
- 10,030
Which instance?
Sokel
Grand Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2021
- Messages
- 11,146
- Likes
- 12,095
Funny story, you've been warned!
I was talking to a speaker rep at Munich show, specially about the trend about boutique caps and stuff at x-overs.
The funny thing that he told me is that they should go with them (as everybody asks for them) right from the beginning.
And why?
Not because of any technical reason (obviously) , not even because of the trend.
But by the fact that the transition to them (even if the cost per piece was some euro) was visually painful when bought in bulk compared to when they used the nice but cheaper ones.
Their engineering hearts couldn't cope with what it seemed to be lost money.
I feel that something similar goes on with MP components (yes, I know the modules are very cheap, but.. ) , a transition to higher tier components ( 10000 hr caps, etc) can be painful if not planned right from the start.
I was talking to a speaker rep at Munich show, specially about the trend about boutique caps and stuff at x-overs.
The funny thing that he told me is that they should go with them (as everybody asks for them) right from the beginning.
And why?
Not because of any technical reason (obviously) , not even because of the trend.
But by the fact that the transition to them (even if the cost per piece was some euro) was visually painful when bought in bulk compared to when they used the nice but cheaper ones.
Their engineering hearts couldn't cope with what it seemed to be lost money.
I feel that something similar goes on with MP components (yes, I know the modules are very cheap, but.. ) , a transition to higher tier components ( 10000 hr caps, etc) can be painful if not planned right from the start.
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 2,451
- Likes
- 10,030
Not sure which example you are referring to still....
PristineSound
Major Contributor
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Messages
- 2,451
- Likes
- 10,030
Oh, sorry, I missed that part. I saw the 2019 part and the part about getting new Fusion amps at Christmas and assumed around 6yrs had transpired. I see the 2.5yrs part now.
I never said it was good. Quite the opposite in fact, tried to make that point with the ICEpower comparison.
The 25% off from Hypex for the FA503s made it worth the gamble that the 10/25 production date has addressed the 252s issues, that seemed to be less abundant on the 502s. Plus I now have DSP (ADAU1452), and digital inputs. HFD software looks a bit cumbersome though.
That was meant more tongue in cheek, I’m well aware what “vintage” means. I was simply implying that they were produced within the date range before which they were apparently “revised” ( I don’t recall reading specifics about what was changed, only that improvements were made to address the anecdotally higher failure rate of pre-2020 boards).
*Pedantic mode engaged
The confusion was my fault, that wasn’t the most clearly, nor efficiently written as it could have been. Way past my bedtime.
PristineSound
Major Contributor
Ahh, got it. It's not easy to spot sarcasm with written words. But I want to add, I have not had any issues with any amps I have ever owned. One is nearly over 40 years old in my possession, so these MP reports are very concerning to read. I don't think I even seen this many reports on Topping amplifiers.
kelesh
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2021
- Messages
- 192
- Likes
- 231
Funny, I have the exact same DA3000ES, but it is inscribed "DIGITAL DRIVE" above the access door instead of "S-MASTER PRO". Sony buzzwords?
Attachments
No doubt. However there is a big change from historical class AB amps which is that pretty much anyone could design and build a class AB amp with a linear PS so there were a huge variety of different designs, some of which failed quickly and some which last for decades, and everything in between. With class D amps, because they are much harder to design and build, there are only a handful of manufacturers making modules that go into every brand of amplifier. If one of these manufacturers makes a mistake it is going to show up in dozens if not hundreds of different brands. With modern design and quality control these generic modules are going to be designed to last for the warranty period but not much longer. This means high end brands don't really have the same control over their quality as they did in the past.
Roland68
Major Contributor
No, unfortunately not.
This stems from the Sony confusion of 2002-2003. These are two different devices.
Sony wanted to distinguish two different lines with "DIGITAL DRIVE" (Silver) and "S-MASTER PRO" (Gold), but realized too late the confusion this caused among customers, retailers, discount stores, and distributors.
Sony even released a special "ES Series Receivers
Technical Background" manual at the time, which made the situation even worse.
The STR-DA3000ES "DIGITAL DRIVE" (Silver) and the STR-DA3000ES "S-MASTER PRO" (Gold) are two different devices. The connection panel on the back is also different.
DIGITAL DRIVE technologies
• Clean Data Cycle
• C-PLM
• S-TACT
• Pulse Height Volume
Control
S-MASTER PRO technologies
• Clean Data Cycle
• C-PLM
• S-TACT
• Pulse Height Volume
Control
• DC Phase Linearizer
• Discrete output
transistor
• Toroidal low pass filter
• Two-Stage Pulse Power
Supply
I'm not sure how we could know this. Perhaps I'm missing something that you think is inherent in "modern design and quality control"
PS - my first class D amp is long out of warranty (purchased 2018) and working fine.
Petrushka
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 1,673
- Likes
- 1,919
NASA spent a lot of money trying to determine the reliability of solid state devices, and failed. The best you can do is mean time between failure, and for solid state devices operated within specs, it’s a long time.
For example, in thirty years of doing IT for small companies, I only saw one CPU fail, and it was a hot running server CPU. Any device that runs hot will have a shorter life, even if it’s premium quality.
In my personal experience, some devices are susceptible to power brownouts. I lost a cheap Fosi amp and a TV after a brownout. They were both surge protected, and nothing else was affected. If cheap power supplies fail early, it’s probably due to running them at the edge of their rating.
My wife collected old sewing machines, and many premium, Swiss made machines died due to electrolytic capacitor failure. Same as audio equipment and computers. I’m not convinced paying more assures better capacitor life.
I think the modules are probably designed to last ant least until the warranty period is over in the worst case conditions and usage. Which means they will last much longer for most people.
kelesh
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2021
- Messages
- 192
- Likes
- 231
Thank you, very informative. I also now noticed another difference - the first one is "6CH" while the second (mine) is 7CH. I will never actually need any of this, since I only use simple stereo audio, but it is interesting trivia.
There is absolutely no way Class D designs have inherent and universal issues impacting longevity. As mentioned repeatedly, it's down to individual product design and has nothing to do with being "Class D".
Audionaut
Major Contributor
Similar threads
