Class D amp long term reliability

[EJ3]

As usual, what is your petty complaint? What are the specifics of your complaint/experience? Vague as usual?

Ah, I have been nothing but extremely clear with you (and the English language). Perhaps you should try another language, as you seem to be having trouble wtih English.
I understand.
I have frustrating issues with some languages, too.
But English is not one of them that I have trouble with.
Either being clear or comprehending.

 

[EJ3]

So true! there is no waiting for Cartoons on Saturday morning they want it NOW!!

I haven't waited for them since they became available on DVD! Any time, anywhere (cell signal or not [with a hand help portable DVD player]).

 

[EJ3]

My problem is the term "planned". There is no grand plan, just that accountants have taken the power everywhere and that anything having a cost with ROI > 3 years is considered as a burden. This drives also the choice for proprietary components and their lack of stocks.

"Planned" by the accountants & not the engineers: perhaps we should be more specific about the "blame".

 

[EJ3]

What about light bulbs? As far as I know there was an illegal agreement between the big makers to limit their life span to 1000 hours. Very long ago...

It's a proven example which can be pointed to. Naturally, it is also a culture in other industries (not all but certainly more than a few).

 

[EJ3]

Incandescent bulbs for use in traffic signals came in two power levels; the largest (for the current 12” indication) drew 133 watts. It was rated at 130 volts. Expected life was 8000 hours. The smaller bulbs (for 8” indications) had a life of 10,000 hours.

The LED modules that have replaced the bulb and reflector have an expected life (at 50% reduction in output) of 100,000 hours. And they draw one-tenth the power. They are more expensive to buy, but with lower lifecycle costs. Incandescent bulbs are no longer used by anyone to my knowledge.

Class D has the efficiency advantage going in to reduce lifecycle costs. But I turn my amps off when not in use, so idle draw for me is zero. Heat management is often an implementation issue, however. @restorer-john is there anything you would do to a new Hypex amp to minimize heat issues?

Rick “whose AB amps use unobtanium transistors, by the way” Denney

Since you have posted this, I have noticed quit a bit of LED failures (usually a few n the array but more as time goes by [the climate here is not harsh from a temperature view but is usually quite humid), in the traffic LED's in South Carolina.
Do you have any idea of why this may be happening. (it was a very rare event prior to LED's).

 

[EJ3]

I think you've assumed a lot here that isn't yet in evidence.

For me, there is enough evidence. Some people may require more evidence, I guess.

 

[rdenney]

Since you have posted this, I have noticed quit a bit of LED failures (usually a few n the array but more as time goes by [the climate here is not harsh from a temperature view but is usually quite humid), in the traffic LED's in South Carolina.
Do you have any idea of why this may be happening. (it was a very rare event prior to LED's).

There are LED's and LED's. The first LED signal indications were visible arrays of discrete LED's potted on a 12"-diameter plate, arranged in half a dozen separate circuits to prevent them all going out if someone put a bullet through it, which is not uncommon.

Later versions put the LED's behind a diffuser lens that makes them look a bit more like the previous incandescent technology that used a 12" polished aluminum reflector and a glass (later acrylic) Fresnel lens of specified pattern.

The LED's themselves are usually specified with a lifespan of 50,000 to 100,000 hours, and usually there are no electronics in the LED indication itself except for sufficient resistance padding to pull the appropriate current through the circuits. They may also be rectified to get a higher duty cycle out of the LED's, but the electronics are rarely what fails. Usually, an LED fails or a bullet goes through it.

Incandescent bulbs for traffic signals usually had a specified lifespan of 8000 hours--about 7 or 8 times what consumer bulbs would provide. Agencies routinely replaced them during preventive maintenance, assuming they provided preventive maintenance, which many do not. Back in the day, we would replace the bulbs annually--the bulbs for the red indications on side streets often see 6500 hours of illumination in a year. But that is a big expense--it requires traffic control and a bucket truck, and replaces bulbs with far less experience (like the bulbs for yellow clearance intervals), wasting much of their life, because they were too cheap compared to the cost of the bucket truck and the traffic control. Reducing the maintenance load was the primary motivation for LED signals. Agencies now replace them as needed. But even 50,000 hours may go by in half a dozen years for some signal indications, so there will be failures. When we replace stuff after it fails, people will see the failure.

But the LED panels in traffic signals are certainly not the price-point junk sold in big-box home stores for residential use.

Rick "traffic signal maintenance budget cuts year after year after year in most agencies" Denney

 

[EJ3]

There are LED's and LED's. The first LED signal indications were visible arrays of discrete LED's potted on a 12"-diameter plate, arranged in half a dozen separate circuits to prevent them all going out if someone put a bullet through it, which is not uncommon.

Later versions put the LED's behind a diffuser lens that makes them look a bit more like the previous incandescent technology that used a 12" polished aluminum reflector and a glass (later acrylic) Fresnel lens of specified pattern.

The LED's themselves are usually specified with a lifespan of 50,000 to 100,000 hours, and usually there are no electronics in the LED indication itself except for sufficient resistance padding to pull the appropriate current through the circuits. They may also be rectified to get a higher duty cycle out of the LED's, but the electronics are rarely what fails. Usually, an LED fails or a bullet goes through it.

Incandescent bulbs for traffic signals usually had a specified lifespan of 8000 hours--about 7 or 8 times what consumer bulbs would provide. Agencies routinely replaced them during preventive maintenance, assuming they provided preventive maintenance, which many do not. Back in the day, we would replace the bulbs annually--the bulbs for the red indications on side streets often see 6500 hours of illumination in a year. But that is a big expense--it requires traffic control and a bucket truck, and replaces bulbs with far less experience (like the bulbs for yellow clearance intervals), wasting much of their life, because they were too cheap compared to the cost of the bucket truck and the traffic control. Reducing the maintenance load was the primary motivation for LED signals. Agencies now replace them as needed. But even 50,000 hours may go by in half a dozen years for some signal indications, so there will be failures. When we replace stuff after it fails, people will see the failure.

But the LED panels in traffic signals are certainly not the price-point junk sold in big-box home stores for residential use.

Rick "traffic signal maintenance budget cuts year after year after year in most agencies" Denney

So, I guess that it is the older ones finally giving up the ghost, as our climate in SC (along the coast) is semi-tropical & not extreme.
I have only been back from living on islands in the Indian Ocean & Western Pacific (2001-2018 [within 15 degrees N & 14 degrees S of the Equator]) for a few years, so not much time as far as infrastructure maintenance changes are concerned.
Good to know that better ones are the norm for what will be installed as replacements for the aging ones.
I have noticed that some appear way better than the others.
Out in the country (where I grew up & prefer [128 people per square mile]), street lights received bullets so that people could see the milky way stars. I had no idea that traffic signals also attracted bullets.
I can sort of understand about the street lights (my family voted against them being put in for light pollution reasons) but find shooting traffic lights to be bizarre.
EJ3

 

[Audionaut]

Would like to keep it for the next 10-15 years. Are class D amps today reliable enough to last that long without issues?

Sony STR-DA3000ES
One of the first fully digital receivers on the market.
Named S-Master Pro circuit by Sony.
Is from 2003 and therefore 22 years old.
Never been repaired and works perfectly.

 

[ahofer]

Just checking in to say that my two class-D amps (NAD and March Audio) are still working perfectly.

 

[EJ3]

Just checking in to say that my two class-D amps (NAD and March Audio) are still working perfectly.

Age? (not yours, the amps).

 

[Willem]

My experience. If your is different, perhaps elaborate. I was an early adopter of the damn things. That was a BIG waste of money, time & landfill space.
Nice of you to speak up so imprecisely. Please elaborate.
Or add nothing intelligible.
As usual.

I have noticed a real difference between domestic LED lights from reputable manufacturers like Philips and Osram, and cheap no name lights. As ever, don't waste your money on cheap junk, and don't blame the type for the bad examples. For me, LED lights have many benefits, and longevity is certainly one of them. Our house has a large central hall with a 20 feet high ceiling, and I am so glad I no longer have to change the bulbs of the ceiling lights. Technological innovation is great. Anyway, here in Europe incandescent lights have been banned for just about all applications, and rightly so, given their far lower energy consumption precisely during the dark hours when our solar panels have no output..

 

[EJ3]

I have noticed a real difference between domestic LED lights from reputable manufacturers like Philips and Osram, and cheap no name lights. As ever, don't waste your money on cheap junk, and don't blame the type for the bad examples. For me, LED lights have many benefits, and longevity is certainly one of them. Our house has a large central hall with a 20 feet high ceiling, and I am so glad I no longer have to change the bulbs of the ceiling lights. Technological innovation is great. Anyway, here in Europe incandescent lights have been banned for just about all applications, and rightly so, given their far lower energy consumption precisely during the dark hours when our solar panels have no output..

I used to use incandescent to heat my water pump in the winter (2 hundred watt bulbs worked, one for light freezing & an additional one for hard freezes).
Since they have been banned, my cast iron water pump froze & cracked, causing much spending of money & disposing into the landfill.
Now I have to have an actual heater in my pump room, which draws much more current than 2 incandescent 100 watt bulbs that were only used intermittently.
They should never be band.
People have many uses for them (hatching chickens for your own personal brood would be one).
I (as well as any one else should have a choice.
I'm sorry that people have made the power supply unreliable. To me, it's not efficient if it doesn't work whenever needed.
That is just a broken design. Anything saves power when it is not working. Causing it to not work is not efficient. (but does save power & kill fam animals, people, etc).
H'mm: less people, less food needed, less need for power...Yep, there is some logic there. A rather diabolical one.

 

[Willem]

I used to use incandescent to heat my water pump in the winter (2 hundred watt bulbs worked, one for light freezing & an additional one for hard freezes).
Since they have been banned, my cast iron water pump froze & cracked, causing much spending of money & disposing into the landfill.
Now I have to have an actual heater in my pump room, which draws much more current than 2 incandescent 100 watt bulbs that were only used intermittently.
They should never be band.
People have many uses for them (hatching chickens for your own personal brood would be one).
I (as well as any one else should have a choice.
I'm sorry that people have made the power supply unreliable. To me, it's not efficient if it doesn't work whenever needed.
That is just a broken design. Anything saves power when it is not working. Causing it to not work is not efficient. (but does save power & kill fam animals, people, etc).
H'mm: less people, less food needed, less need for power...Yep, there is some logic there. A rather diabolical one.

Using incandescent lights for heating seems to be the most inefficient technology. And as for an unreliable power supply: ours in the Netherlands is ultra reliable - I can personally not remember any interruptions ever, even though there have been some in other parts of the country, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. However, with the growing importance of solar it helps to reduce power consumption during the dark hours.

 

[Petrushka]

I used to use incandescent to heat my water pump in the winter (2 hundred watt bulbs worked, one for light freezing & an additional one for hard freezes).
Since they have been banned, my cast iron water pump froze & cracked, causing much spending of money & disposing into the landfill.
Now I have to have an actual heater in my pump room, which draws much more current than 2 incandescent 100 watt bulbs that were only used intermittently.
They should never be band.
People have many uses for them (hatching chickens for your own personal brood would be one).
I (as well as any one else should have a choice.
I'm sorry that people have made the power supply unreliable. To me, it's not efficient if it doesn't work whenever needed.
That is just a broken design. Anything saves power when it is not working. Causing it to not work is not efficient. (but does save power & kill fam animals, people, etc).
H'mm: less people, less food needed, less need for power...Yep, there is some logic there. A rather diabolical one.

A simple heater with thermostat should work. It’s not the wattage of the heater that’s important, but whether it’s on for the minimum required time.

 

[caught gesture]

I used to use incandescent to heat my water pump in the winter (2 hundred watt bulbs worked, one for light freezing & an additional one for hard freezes).
Since they have been banned, my cast iron water pump froze & cracked, causing much spending of money & disposing into the landfill.
Now I have to have an actual heater in my pump room, which draws much more current than 2 incandescent 100 watt bulbs that were only used intermittently.
They should never be band.
People have many uses for them (hatching chickens for your own personal brood would be one).
I (as well as any one else should have a choice.
I'm sorry that people have made the power supply unreliable. To me, it's not efficient if it doesn't work whenever needed.
That is just a broken design. Anything saves power when it is not working. Causing it to not work is not efficient. (but does save power & kill fam animals, people, etc).
H'mm: less people, less food needed, less need for power...Yep, there is some logic there. A rather diabolical one.

Have you thought of using a heat lamp with infrared bulbs? I use them in a pump room. They only come on when necessary using a sensor to detect the temperature drop.

 

[Audionaut]

Since they have been banned, my cast iron water pump froze & cracked, causing much spending of money & disposing into the landfill.

You need something like this.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0D9GS776G

Length is variable

 

[tmtomh]

Why are we going round and round about LEDs? As @Willem notes (or at least implies) above, it’s not the technology that’s the problem - it’s the cheap or poorly assembled interface circuit boards that some manufacturers put in the bulbs. No technology is independent of quality of implementation.

 

[Willem]

Why are we going round and round about LEDs? As @Willem notes (or at least implies) above, it’s not the technology that’s the problem - it’s the cheap or poorly assembled interface circuit boards that some manufacturers put in the bulbs. No technology is independent of quality of implementation.

I think it is fear for the modern, whether it is for modern class D amplifiers, electric cars, led lights or what have you. Technology moves on, and we all benefit. Underlying this is, of course, also the romantic and conservative notion that things were better in the past. Well, as an economic historian I can tell you: they were not. In the past electronics not only did not measure as well as modern gear, but they often were not very reliable either. Of course, there are spectacular examples of superb Japanese amplifiers from the 1970s, but they were exceptional.

 

[RickS]

Thought we had a thread on LED bulbs (or maybe we need one)? Btw @EJ3, recall an initial ban attempt, but plenty of incandescent bulbs still on the market.

Perhaps this thread has run its course?