Class D amp long term reliability

[Petrushka]

Of course, and the stuff I worked with included a lot of SMT components, it wasn't quite the dinosaur age despite the rumors... The higher heat required for wave soldering lead-free components was also an issue in some cases, and required a different temperature profile. I designed mainly ICs, but often enough had to design the test boards and ultimately higher-level products using those ICs. ICs have their own whiskering/sintering problems, natch.

In my imagination, you buy a pretty box at whatever price level you want. (This was common in desktop computer days.)

You then pick the streamer, DAC, DSP, and power modules cafeteria style. If you are not comfortable handling boards, you go to the local iPhone repair store and let them assemble it.

Assuming the mainstream brands don’t like this approach, ChiFi companies might.

This exact scenario might be fantasy, but I see it already being done. Just not in one box, and not elegantly.

 

[Doodski]

In my imagination, you buy a pretty box at whatever price level you want. (This was common in desktop computer days.)

You then pick the streamer, DAC, DSP, and power modules cafeteria style. If you are not comfortable handling boards, you go to the local iPhone repair store and let them assemble it.

Assuming the mainstream brands don’t like this approach, ChiFi companies might.

This exact scenario might be fantasy, but I see it already being done. Just not in one box, and not elegantly.

Class D amps are available in raw PCB, amps and power supplies with input buffers too. So there's that. I get what you want there but I'm not sure enough people would jump on that bandwagon.

 

[mhardy6647]

And there you have the problem.

Manufacturers don't really care about life out at 10 years. Further, the market has changed. The days of integrated amps being usable for 40/50 years are gone. They are filled now with digital electronics - which is driven obsolete by changes in standards and requirements in typically much less than 10 years.**

And then - as we have read in some of the articles posted above, there is no one mitigation to whiskering that solves the problem. Coating alone does not do it. The cost of implementing multiple measures, that even then probably only reduces the failure rate rather than killing it, for something that occurs 10 years down the line, is simply not going to happen.

**(How many 10 year old AVRs are any use now for modern AV program material?)

Great but unfortunate (IMO, of course, no more and no less) assessment.

I have a considerably-more-than-10-year-old AVR here -- but it is used for decidedly non-modern material, as many of all y'all know already.



(it was also a dump find, but that's secondary)

 

[Verig]

In my imagination, you buy a pretty box at whatever price level you want. (This was common in desktop computer days.)

You then pick the streamer, DAC, DSP, and power modules cafeteria style. If you are not comfortable handling boards, you go to the local iPhone repair store and let them assemble it.

Assuming the mainstream brands don’t like this approach, ChiFi companies might.

MDC Modules - NAD Electronics

NAD Electronics MDC Modules

nadelectronics.com

NAD has had these for years. No idea how many they sell though.

I'd love to select a nice looking box with standard module bays or board places.

 

[Petrushka]

Class D amps are available in raw PCB, amps and power supplies with input buffers too. So there's that. I get what you want there but I'm not sure enough people would jump on that bandwagon.

I go back to the original IBM PC. The IBM corporation was horrified by the PC because the architecture was open. The bios call were defined in such a way that it was possible to clone the bios in a white room. So in a couple of years, you could make a 100 percent compatible clone. Worse, you could make add-ons.

I’m thinking that what ChiFi does is beyond the power of anyone to control.

I do not see anyone talking about a standardized box, but I see tons of people who want to mix and match components.

The results are aesthetically messy, and worse, involve tangles of cables.

 

[Doodski]

I go back to the original IBM PC. The IBM corporation was horrified by the PC because the architecture was open. The bios call were defined in such a way that it was possible to clone the bios in a white room. So in a couple of years, you could make a 100 percent compatible clone. Worse, you could make add-ons.

I’m thinking that what ChiFi does is beyond the power of anyone to control.

I do not see anyone talking about a standardized box, but I see tons of people who want to mix and match components.

The results are aesthetically messy, and worse, involve tangles of cables.

Yes, cables galore. I know about that. My desktop is covered with cables behind the monitor. I don't see enough of a base that would make the production of plug in components for home audio a viable project.

 

[Verig]

Yes, cables galore. I know about that. My desktop is covered with cables behind the monitor. I don't see enough of a base that would make the production of plug in components for home audio a viable project.

I'm kinda surprised there are no custom case options. Hifi is still very old fashioned that there has to be a very set brand and look. It would need a different business model and marketing to change this. Less ego? Perhaps begin from dacs, hp amps, streamers and small chip amps. I'd guess there is more market for custom hello kitty streamer than to anything high-endish.

Up to an extent this has worked for a while in audio if you take a look all the podcast/twitch etc. streaming crowd gear. Unfortunately it comes with normal side effects like mediocre junk with big ticket. But there custom stuff and modularity could be a thing.

 

[Petrushka]

Yes, cables galore. I know about that. My desktop is covered with cables behind the monitor. I don't see enough of a base that would make the production of plug in components for home audio a viable project.

I have found over the years that my good ideas are either already on the market, or come to market in a year or two. Which means someone has been developing the product for ten years before I thought of it.

Considering how painful it is to design loudspeakers, I wouldn’t think there would be much of a market for raw drivers. But apparently there is.

What I’m thinking about is something as simple for an end user as swapping a video card in a desktop.

 

[Doodski]

I have found over the years that my good ideas are either already on the market, or come to market in a year or two. Which means someone has been developing the product for ten years before I thought of it.

Considering how painful it is to design loudspeakers, I wouldn’t think there would be much of a market for raw drivers. But apparently there is.

What I’m thinking about is something as simple for an end user as swapping a video card in a desktop.

Well. In my travels reading PC review stuff and surfing new models at overclocking websites I have seen such stuff. It just occurred to me but I saw a 2 channel amplifier that fits in a 5 1/4" bay, sounds cards where all the rage until DACs and onboard sound.

 

[Petrushka]

Well. In my travels reading PC review stuff and surfing new models at overclocking websites I have seen such stuff. It just occurred to me but I saw a 2 channel amplifier that fits in a 5 1/4" bay, sounds cards where all the rage until DACs and onboard sound.

What I want is a WIIM ultra with a built in amp, or a WiiM Amp Pro with a phono input.

One box. 60 WPC would be fine.

 

[Verig]

What I want is a WIIM ultra with a built in amp, or a WiiM Amp Pro with a phono input.

One box. 60 WPC would be fine.

So... you want a cheap NAD / Lyngdorf? Bluesound Node Edge is nice too.
Shouldn't be long really. It seems things are taking their form. Slowly, but still. Not modular but at least affordable and good combinations.

Phono input is something I can give or take. I kinda accept certain tweaking with a TT. It's the gear hobby part for me.

 

[AdamG]

I’m thinking that what ChiFi does is beyond the power of anyone to control.

Hi Petrushka,

We know that you don’t mean this in a derogatory manner towards Chinese people. We have a Forum specific Policy to avoid this description. Therefore, we kindly request our Members avoid using this terminology “Chi-fi” as it can have negative connotations for such companies and individuals. Please also try to stay on topic here.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this regard.

 

[Petrushka]

Hi Petrushka,

We know that you don’t mean this in a derogatory manner towards Chinese people. We have a Forum specific Policy to avoid this description. Therefore, we kindly request our Members avoid using this terminology “Chi-fi” as it can have negative connotations for such companies and individuals. Please also try to stay on topic here.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this regard.

I meant it affectionately, as I am a fan.

 

[dlaloum]

It is a phenomenon that happens with the metals having immense pressure such that they eject a whisker. Those metals are used in pretty much all electronics so anything is possible. I have repaired mystery repairs where I can't figure out the fault so I go to troubleshooting mode and clean the PCB with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol and voila the device works again and upon testing no further faults found and the customers where happy as clams and never came back for the 90 day warranty.

Also happens with things that contain Zinc .... and anything that is Zinc coated - which is a common treatment for certain screws, nuts, bolts....

 

[wwenze]

Hopefully with the whole "product as a service" paradigm we can get companies to care about longevity again. Heard that some parts of the world people are choosing to rent cars long term instead of owning.

 

[Petrushka]

Hopefully with the whole "product as a service" paradigm we can get companies to care about longevity again. Heard that some parts of the world people are choosing to rent cars long term instead of owning.

I started out asking a question and went down a rabbit hole. I think it was the right question. At the moment there is no solution.

 

[somebodyelse]

Hopefully with the whole "product as a service" paradigm we can get companies to care about longevity again. Heard that some parts of the world people are choosing to rent cars long term instead of owning.

Right to repair legislation might help too, so long as it doesn't get too watered down.

 

[copperblue]

Nice. I have had Technics turntables and had a nice one from the upper end of Technics. What turntable do you have?

1210 M3D. Serial no gives a build date of 1998; I bought it as NOS in 2003.

 

[Doodski]

1210 M3D. Serial no gives a build date of 1998; I bought it as NOS in 2003.

Cool. Does it come with this carbon fiber mat too?

 

[copperblue]

Cool. Does it come with this carbon fiber mat too?

Yes, it came with that mat, a wafer thin transparent slipmat and the (thinner) standard rubber mat that has been used on subsequent models. I use the standard thicker OEM mat from the Mk 2.