Class AB or class D amplifier in a budget system

[andreasmaaan]

You do not need a different amplifier with a room as small as that. It is powerful enough with your medium sensitivity speakers, it has digital inputs, and the quality is good. Also, in such a room a subwoofer would be overwhelming.

I don't see how subwoofers would be overwhelming, unless incorrectly set-up. The goals of using subwoofers are to extend bass response, relieve stress on the mains, and to enable more optimal placement in terms of combating room modes. And with more sophisticated subwoofers, to enable bass management. The result should be cleaner, more extended and more accurate bass, as well as a cleaner midrange due to lower IM distortion in the speakers. And indeed the bass should be less overwhelming with properly set-up subs (if it was overwhelming before).

Totally agree with you re: the amp.

 

[Sebastijanovski]

Just putting in my $ 0.02 on the original question. I just switched from a 90s AB power amp, Musical Fidelity Typhoon, to a Purifi based power amp a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you, I'm not looking to go back. If you want clean power without any of the audiophile pixie dust, I think the last generation of class D amps is the way to go, at least from where I'm sitting.

Cheers,
Seb

 

[Vasr]

Just putting in my $ 0.02 on the original question. I just switched from a 90s AB power amp, Musical Fidelity Typhoon, to a Purifi based power amp a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you, I'm not looking to go back. If you want clean power without any of the audiophile pixie dust, I think the last generation of class D amps is the way to go, at least from where I'm sitting.

Cheers,
Seb

Did you perceive any audible differences that cannot be attributed to power differences alone?

Class D amps can definitely give high Watts for the buck and do so without running into high distortion. BUT, for less than 180W/channel requirement, there are plenty of good class AB amps at lower prices than a corresponding Class D (especially if you want it from a major brand for the service and warranty handling within the country you live in).

So, it becomes a "sounds great, less filling" type of debate.

 

[Desmo]

I also like the IOTAVX SA3. It has a pre-out and a subwoofer output. It can be a good base to build a system.

 

[Koeitje]

Why? I never found a measurement for the Totem Mite. So how could we know it's a bad speaker?

I never saw a good Totem speaker either.

 

[Desmo]

I never saw a good Totem speaker either.

So you can see or a speaker is good or bad? No need for ASR then anymore.......

 

[andreasmaaan]

@Desmo I don't know how they perform so I can't say whether they are objectively good or bad. If you love the way they sound, then definitely keep them. But I would say that spending €1k on an amp to drive them instead of looking at other alternatives is a misallocation of budget. With €1k to spend, I would be looking elsewhere for performance improvements, either at new speakers, room treatments, or the addition of subwoofers. These areas are where genuine sonic improvements reside. Will stop annoying you now

 

[Desmo]

@Desmo I don't know how they perform so I can't say whether they are objectively good or bad. If you love the way they sound, then definitely keep them. But I would say that spending €1k on an amp to drive them instead of looking at other alternatives is a misallocation of budget. With €1k to spend, I would be looking elsewhere for performance improvements, either at new speakers, room treatments, or the addition of subwoofers. These areas are where genuine sonic improvements reside. Will stop annoying you now

You are absolutely right. I also think it's best to look at the speaker side first after reading through the replies

 

[Sebastijanovski]

Did you perceive any audible differences that cannot be attributed to power differences alone?

Class D amps can definitely give high Watts for the buck and do so without running into high distortion. BUT, for less than 180W/channel requirement, there are plenty of good class AB amps at lower prices than a corresponding Class D (especially if you want it from a major brand for the service and warranty handling within the country you live in).

So, it becomes a "sounds great, less filling" type of debate.

Yes, there is a definite sonic improvement, there was an annoying suck-out in the mid bass that is gone now, and the highs are a bit more pronounced. But you are right, the power makes a big difference, the Typhoon produces maybe 50 W into 8 ohm if the Moon is right, so I pretty much tripled the power.

I'm sure you're right and there are loads of great AB amps in this price range, just my experience with the Purifi amp has been and continues to be very positive.

Cheers,
Seb

 

[CDMC]

Why? I never found a measurement for the Totem Mite. So how could we know it's a bad speaker?

The Mite measures better than many of Totem's more expensive speakers. They are pretty good, a little too much energy in the 2,000+ hz range, but no big peaks like we have seen in other Totems. They have a punchy sound, but it is colored by their very thin boxes which have resonances in the bass through lower midrange. For the $300 they sell for on the used market, they are a fair deal. Here are measurements from 36" with my desktop system comparing the Mites to the Philharmonic Mini (ignore below 100hz, one has subwoofers running, one does not and note my desktop shows a consistent peak in the 1000-2000 hz range despite which speaker is measured):

Here are measurements from a hobbyist that rebuilt a pair after they were damaged, in room from 24":

https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discussion/218/new-rebuild-project


And another set of measurements with little detail provided by someone else: https://harmonicsreview.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/totem-mites/


Back to the original question about upgrading the amp. I agree, swapping amps at this point serves no purpose. Spending the money towards a good pair of subwoofers and high passing the Totems will improve the sound quality greatly. Swapping amps will make, at most, only a very slight difference. If the OP is dead set against subs, I would put it instead towards a pair of floor standing speakers.

 

[Desmo]

The Mite measures better than many of Totem's more expensive speakers. They are pretty good, a little too much energy in the 2,000+ hz range, but no big peaks like we have seen in other Totems. They have a punchy sound, but it is colored by their very thin boxes which have resonances in the bass through lower midrange. For the $300 they sell for on the used market, they are a fair deal. Here are measurements from 36" with my desktop system comparing the Mites to the Philharmonic Mini (ignore below 100hz, one has subwoofers running, one does not and note my desktop shows a consistent peak in the 1000-2000 hz range despite which speaker is measured):

View attachment 87104View attachment 87105

Here are measurements from a hobbyist that rebuilt a pair after they were damaged, in room from 24":

View attachment 87106

https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discussion/218/new-rebuild-project


And another set of measurements with little detail provided by someone else: https://harmonicsreview.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/totem-mites/


Back to the original question about upgrading the amp. I agree, swapping amps at this point serves no purpose. Spending the money towards a good pair of subwoofers and high passing the Totems will improve the sound quality greatly. Swapping amps will make, at most, only a very slight difference. If the OP is dead set against subs, I would put it instead towards a pair of floor standing speakers.

Thanks for the measurements! Your evaluation of the sound is about the same I hear in the sound of the Mite's.

Correct me if I'am wrong but won't I need an amplifier with crossover control if I want to high pass the speakers?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Correct me if I'am wrong but won't I need an amplifier with crossover control if I want to high pass the speakers?

Not necessarily. If you're going for software room EQ, you could set up the subs for good integration but elevated bass, and then flatten things out on the EQ side, thus effectively reducing bass output on the mains this way.

I guess we should add a measurement microphone to the budget.

 

[Desmo]

Not necessarily. If you're going for software room EQ, you could set up the subs for good integration but elevated bass, and then flatten things out on the EQ side, thus effectively reducing bass output on the mains this way.

I guess we should add a measurement microphone to the budget.

And a laptop

 

[dualazmak]

I'm hoping the translations are inaccurate because it mostly reads as a mass of bollocks.

Hello SIY,

I would like to hear your comment(s) again in my multichannel thread after you would carefully read through the entire thread....

 

[SIY]

Hello SIY,

I would like to hear your comment(s) again in my multichannel thread after you would carefully read through the entire thread....

I've used the EKIO software- it's quite nice.

The comments about amplification are still nonsense.

 

[dualazmak]

I've used the EKIO software- it's quite nice.
The comments about amplification are still nonsense.

I do not like to hijack this nice thread started by Desmo. You would please visit and post on my thread, if you would like to do so.

Just let me touch on one point here related to Class-A amps. Do you believe this info given by Accuphase Company on their Class-A amp followed by post here are still nonsense?
I hope to see you in my thread....

 

[SIY]

Just let me touch on one point here related to Class-A amps. Do you believe this info given by Accuphase Company on their Class-A amp followed by post here are still nonsense?

A mix.

General advice: don't try to learn about amplification from ad copy and marketing material. If you have a serious interest in understanding, you'd do well to grab copies of Doug Self's and Bob Cordell's books on the subject.

 

[dualazmak]

A mix.
General advice: don't try to learn about amplification from ad copy and marketing material. If you have a serious interest in understanding, you'd do well to grab copies of Doug Self's and Bob Cordell's books on the subject.

Thanks, I will soon find books, and will try to learn the contents.
In any way, I feel that I (we) should select amps through actual (comparative) listening sessions in my (our) own setup and environments including the room acoustics...

 

[SIY]

Thanks, I will soon find books, and will try to learn the contents.
In any way, I feel that I (we) should select amps through actual (comparative) listening sessions in my (our) own setup and environments including the room acoustics...

With basic controls, sure, but you'll soon find out that if the amps can handle the volume you want connected to the speaker you want, they're unlikely to sound different unless one (or both) is some weirdly incompetent boutique design. That assumes, of course, that the comparison is actually listening, ears-only, level-matched, no peeking, i.e., the most basic controls.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks, I will soon find books, and will try to learn the contents.
In any way, I feel that I (we) should select amps through actual (comparative) listening sessions in my (our) own setup and environments including the room acoustics...

Without proper comparison tools/techniques mostly a fool's errand, especially if fueled by subjective reviews in the silly mags/blogs....