Clarification in understanding the AVR reviews

[gwur]

I've read through some of the AVR reviews and I'm wanting to clarify something. When I look at the various measurements the ones that I care about in terms of HDMI input based movie sound tracks are the DAC ones, correct? The amplifier measurements are related to analogue outputs from analogue input signals?

I am aiming to understand, if I care about watching movies then what measurements do I care most about.

Also, if the DAC in the AVR performs poorly then are there any X.Y channel processor with a DACs (or DAC and seperate processor) that can be used instead, feeding a separate amplifier?

I really am hoping that there is something that can get a good recommendation either as a whole package or as separates.

Thanks

 

[iLoveCats]

After the Denon 3500 review my friend, with a Denon 3500, bought a Topping D10 DAC for streaming music from his computer to the Denon. The Topping is connected to the analog input for CD on the Denon. Noticeable difference over the HDMI connection from the computer to the Denon internal DAC.

 

[gwur]

After the Denon 3500 review my friend, with a Denon 3500, bought a Topping D10 DAC for streaming music from his computer to the Denon. The Topping is connected to the analog input for CD on the Denon. Noticeable difference over the HDMI connection from the computer to the Denon internal DAC.

So for music:
DAC -> analogue input -> AVR processor -> AVR output -> speakers
The AVR amp reviews take into account any of the AVR processing like room correction and equalizers?

 

[iLoveCats]

So for music:
DAC -> analogue input -> AVR processor -> AVR output -> speakers
The AVR amp reviews take into account any of the AVR processing like room correction and equalizers?

Yes that's the signal chain now for music. You can change your audio input fairly quickly in windows to compare the external DAC with the HDMI input.
I believe Amir turns off any correction or puts the receiver in a direct or pure mode.

 

[gwur]

Is there anyone that could address the original question about reviews, HDMI inputs, DACs? As it applies to multi channel sources like movies, henceforth AVR relevancy and not stereo DAC and amp sphere?

 

[direstraitsfan98]

After the Denon 3500 review my friend, with a Denon 3500, bought a Topping D10 DAC for streaming music from his computer to the Denon. The Topping is connected to the analog input for CD on the Denon. Noticeable difference over the HDMI connection from the computer to the Denon internal DAC.

What noticeable difference?

 

[amirm]

I've read through some of the AVR reviews and I'm wanting to clarify something. When I look at the various measurements the ones that I care about in terms of HDMI input based movie sound tracks are the DAC ones, correct? The amplifier measurements are related to analogue outputs from analogue input signals?

Usually yes although I sometimes test with HDMI as input (or other digital source) if that is available. Just look at the graphs and it says which input was used.

 

[gwur]

Usually yes although I sometimes test with HDMI as input (or other digital source) if that is available. Just look at the graphs and it says which input was used.

So the signal path is
HDMI in -> AV processor -> possible DSP -> AV DAC
After AV DAC it is
AV DAC -> possible equaliser-> AV Amplifier -> output

? is that correct?

If the DAC measures poorly then what are alternatives? Is there something that can split the multi channel audio into separate channels but then send it to external DACs?

I totally get that there may be some sort of AV pre amp that has good DACs but is yet to be independently measured. I look forward to those measurements in that case.

 

[amirm]

So the signal path is
HDMI in -> AV processor -> possible DSP -> AV DAC
After AV DAC it is
AV DAC -> possible equaliser-> AV Amplifier -> output

? is that correct

I usually defeat all processing effects. Whether some is still left in there is hard to tell. I definitely disable Auto EQ, bass management, and compression limiting. Whether there is some sample rate conversion left in there is hard to tell.

If the DAC measures poorly then what are alternatives?

If it is mostly for movie watching, I say ignore it. For music, I opt for a completely different system.

Good DAC performance is simply not their target.

 

[gwur]

Thanks! That helps with my queries. It helps to put the reviews in to perspective as well.

I am a little surprised. I would have thought in the separates market there would be a product that only does channel processing, and a product that only does digital to analog conversion. I know that would mean three separates with power amp, but at least the DACs could really shine

 

[beefkabob]

If you want truly stellar sound in a 5+ channel system, it looks like you're going to have to go very expensive.

I like 2 channel myself. I've never been excited about multi-channel audio. The image is, after all, in front of me.

 

[iLoveCats]

What noticeable difference?

Everything got clearer without being bright. The bass got tighter too. So clarity and definition are the two words to describe it. That D10 is the cheapest way to show someone, especially a vocal denier, that DAC's matter.

 

[Trdat]

After the Denon 3500 review my friend, with a Denon 3500, bought a Topping D10 DAC for streaming music from his computer to the Denon. The Topping is connected to the analog input for CD on the Denon. Noticeable difference over the HDMI connection from the computer to the Denon internal DAC.

Yes, but there has to be another conversion inside the AVR with its own DAC if you are using any decoding say such as Dolby or dynamic volume?

Perhaps in pure direct mode, maybe the external DAC(your suing) might be used independently....

I am not 100% sure but this is what i am lead to believe.

 

[iLoveCats]

Yes, but there has to be another conversion inside the AVR with its own DAC if you are using any decoding say such as Dolby or dynamic volume?

Perhaps in pure direct mode, maybe the external DAC(your suing) might be used independently....

I am not 100% sure but this is what i am lead to believe.

No Dolby, just stereo. So you think the analog inputs go through an A to D DAC, then get dynamic volume applied, then go to another D to A DAC to get to your speakers? Crazy if that's true.

 

[Trdat]

No Dolby, just stereo. So you think the analog inputs go through an A to D DAC, then get dynamic volume applied, then go to another D to A DAC to get to your speakers? Crazy if that's true.

Like I said I am not the go to expert on this forum hopefully someone will chime in but this has been talked about in other posts plus you can google it and check out others expertise on different forums.

From my understanding everything is digitized or at least goes through some form of A to D then D to A conversion. But like you said if your listening to stereo and have turned on Direct mode it might bypass the internal conversion it depends on your AVR. The only think that might not have internal conversion is zone 2 which needs an external DAC and this is only on some AVR not all.

 

[zuli]

In the Denon, with an analog source and the (Pure) Direct mode, you are bypassing AD DA conversion.
Everything else will go through the DA conversion, and off course to the AD conversion if it's an analog source.