City living as a serious listener: impact of limited space/neighbors/high rent on listening?

[Blake Klondike]

I posted this in response to another thread several weeks ago, and would love to hear other members' thoughts or strategies or experiences around challenges to listening imposed by living with big city realities, e.g.: small apartment, old electrical system, many contiguous neighbors, etc. The questions that came to mind for me were:

Why are rents so high in cities now that we can't afford to have dedicated listening rooms and have to make other rooms do double-duty?

Why do 100 year-old duplexes have so few electrical outlets that it's hard to find a workable set-up in the space we DO have?

What do we do about the fact that we have beautiful speaker systems, but out of respect for our downstairs neighbors, we can't use them?

Those are the problems I face every day-- for instance, I can't listen to LPs right now because I dont have an outlet to plug my turntable into. If I run an extension cord it will look terrible and will also have to go behind the radiator, which might be dangerous! i am out of space for LPs, so i can't buy a new one without getting rid of an old one, etc. I would love to hear from people who have had to make concessions around this, and what they did about it!

 

[levimax]

1. Headphones 2. Move.

 

[Blake Klondike]

1. Headphones 2. Move.

i worry that that is really the only solution! we don't want to uproot our lives at 50 though, and are attached to the idea of making due with what we have. i end up doing most of my listening via streaming on wireless IEM in bed because i can't find a way to make my terrestrial system work with what we have!

 

[ahofer]

I’m in a 100 year-old building on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, with the LR system you see in the picture/avatar to the left of this post. I have never had a complaint from a neighbor, and I listen in the 70-80 decibel range. I invested in some super quiet LG dual-compressor air conditioner window units that really helped in the summer. These old buildings have really solid walls with metal mesh in them. Hell on WiFi, but great for noise insulation.

So I won’t be moving for sound system reasons. More likely since Mayor Mamdani put a target on my back I may have to go. It seems to be happening in a lot of nice places, though. I have a condo in Washington (state) i could retreat to, but the government there is also dead set on ruining it.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

I live in a city center but it's in a modern building; thick concrete between flats, nice high ceilings, spacious rooms etc - I don't run a sub with my Lintons but still i get down to the mid 30s which is plenty for me without risking penetrating to other units, and ofc i dont blast at night club levels

Hifi system is in the living room + kitchen + dining area and the large size of the room makes for good acoustics

 

[Blake Klondike]

I’m in a 100 year-old building on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, with the LR system you see in the picture/avatar to the left of this post. I have never had a complaint from a neighbor, and I listen in the 70-80 decibel range. I invested in some super quiet LG dual-compressor air conditioner window units that really helped in the summer. These old buildings have really solid walls with metal mesh in them. Hell on WiFi, but great for noise insulation.

So I won’t be moving for sound system reasons. More likely since Mayor Mamdani put a target on my back I may have to go. It seems to be happening in a lot of nice places, though. I have a condo in Washington (state) i could retreat to, but the government there is also dead set on ruining it.

what's your input source for those speakers? looks like a great set-up-- complete with cat! what do you mean about the mayor? is he making things difficult in ways we don't hear about?

 

[Blake Klondike]

I live in a city center but it's in a modern building; thick concrete between flats, nice high ceilings, spacious rooms etc - I don't run a sub with my Lintons but still i get down to the mid 30s which is plenty for me without risking penetrating to other units, and ofc i dont blast at night club levels

Hifi system is in the living room + kitchen + dining area and the large size of the room makes for good acoustics

how did you end up with the lintons? what are you using for source input with them? one of my problems is that i have one electrical outlet per room so room orientation is very limited.

 

[analogonly]

Those of you in large cities should have the benefit of lots of live music.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

Ended up with the Lintons because I wanted speakers I could run full range without a sub which meant something big and they needed to be something that isn't ugly as a prominent feature in the living room so that's what me and my girlfriend settled with we both like the classic style and it suits the rest of the decor

I'm digital only so it's just a Wiim Pro Plus going into a pair of Fosi V3 Monos (previously had a less powerful amp but it had bad clipping trying to fill this large open space)

You can have your amp and other such hifi equipment across the room from the speakers and simply route the cables around to where your speakers are, either hiding them under a rug or having them tidily against the wall, I've got a friend who had to do this and used those little hoop things to secure them to the skirting boards and you just don't notice them until they're pointed out, it helps that they're white speaker cables against a white skirting board

Don't worry about cable length in this context; it's only in pro settings with much longer cable routing where that becomes an issue

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Why do 100 year-old duplexes have so few electrical outlets that it's hard to find a workable set-up in the space we DO have?

I renovated and installed multiple AC outlets just where I need them. Installed in-wall system wiring, too.

What do we do about the fact that we have beautiful speaker systems, but out of respect for our downstairs neighbors, we can't use them?

Not a problem. I play as loud as I want but not late at night nor before breakfast.

 

[GD Fan]

Those of you in large cities should have the benefit of lots of live music.

Should have, yes, and have had in the past. But sadly it seems to be dying. Or at least not visiting Manhattan (could be a costs / insurance / unions thing). Even the calendar at the Beacon Theater in my neighborhood, former host to lengthy residencies by the Allman Brothers as an example, is mostly comedy shows these days.

Fortunately for me, I also like live comedy.

 

[Timcognito]

Forget Rap and other music that is just beat and bass. Get into acoustic after 9pm.

 

[Keith_W]

Why are rents so high in cities now that we can't afford to have dedicated listening rooms and have to make other rooms do double-duty?

Cities are always expensive. It's not just your city, it's ALL major cities. If you think you have it bad, spare a thought for Hong Kong shoebox apartments (literally an apartment where you can't stand up and there's only space for you to lie down with a few of your belongings) or slums in the largest city in the world, Jakarta.

Why do 100 year-old duplexes have so few electrical outlets that it's hard to find a workable set-up in the space we DO have?

Because 100 years ago, there were fewer electrical appliances. All you needed to power were some lamps, and maybe a radio if you were wealthy. Remember, in 1926 homes did not have TV's. Now you have computers, portable devices, wi-fi, microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners - literally dozens of electrical appliances. Of course it's not enough, it was built for a different era.

What do we do about the fact that we have beautiful speaker systems, but out of respect for our downstairs neighbors, we can't use them?

Move or use headphones!

Those are the problems I face every day-- for instance, I can't listen to LPs right now because I dont have an outlet to plug my turntable into.

Forget LP's and use a streamer.

 

[ahofer]

what's your input source for those speakers? looks like a great set-up-- complete with cat! what do you mean about the mayor? is he making things difficult in ways we don't hear about?

Roon->ROPIEEXL->RME-ADI DAC->NAD c298-> Harbeth Super HL5AE

It’s mostly the new taxes he proposes (and may be unlikely to pass) that shows his antagonism towards upper income folks near retirement, but there is a slow-moving train of expenses coming towards us that are more logistical:

-Local Law 11 (facade inspection and repair rules) has imposed significant costs on owners of ALL buildings, but particularly older buildings. It’s become a vehicle for union oligopoly graft. Every five years they poke around and find expensive stuff we then have to do. In our case we have to replace a section of structural beam this time.
-Local laws 154 and 97 are forcing conversion from fossil fuel sources (including for heat), even as the state laws of similar kind have frozen electricity generation. Quite literally, ConEd cannot supply the power we need to do this even if our electrical systems are ready (they are not). Meanwhile, we are trying to charge EVs in all the garages.

I have an 1800 square foot apartment, and our monthly maintenance would be more like *rent* to most people. Less than half of it is building staff.

I’ll avoid his taxation proposals, because that feels more like a politics discussion, but generally, I think their effect has been to discourage wealthier people from moving here, and I see anecdotal evidence (from serving on a private school board) of wealthier families moving away, in an echo wave of the Covid out-migration.

 

[olds1959special]

I don't care what my neighbors think, and I play it loud with my windows open, and I live in an apartment!

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Regarding neighbors, when I was in an apartment I used Magnepans and placed my subwoofers on thick rubber pads. No one ever complained. I even asked neighbors about it. (I also never listened at insane levels.)

 

[Sammy77]

1. Headphones 2. Move.

 

[tineared]

I posted this in response to another thread several weeks ago, and would love to hear other members' thoughts or strategies or experiences around challenges to listening imposed by living with big city realities, e.g.: small apartment, old electrical system, many contiguous neighbors, etc. The questions that came to mind for me were:

Why are rents so high in cities now that we can't afford to have dedicated listening rooms and have to make other rooms do double-duty?

Why do 100 year-old duplexes have so few electrical outlets that it's hard to find a workable set-up in the space we DO have?

What do we do about the fact that we have beautiful speaker systems, but out of respect for our downstairs neighbors, we can't use them?

Those are the problems I face every day-- for instance, I can't listen to LPs right now because I dont have an outlet to plug my turntable into. If I run an extension cord it will look terrible and will also have to go behind the radiator, which might be dangerous! i am out of space for LPs, so i can't buy a new one without getting rid of an old one, etc. I would love to hear from people who have had to make concessions around this, and what they did about it!

Dedicated listening rooms are nice, but not necessary
Extension cords can be hidden with some creativity
Neighbors can be trained

 

[KenMasters]

It really depends on the apartment. I live in an over a century old building, it was renovated in 2007.

Plenty of electrical outputs and the apartments are soundproofed and air gapped. Facing street side we have triple soundproofed glass layer windows that open to the outside and another double glass layer window in front of it that opens to the inside.

I have four subwoofers and it's not uncommon to still be playing music until 3am on weekends. No complaints from the neighbours, and I've asked.

This is not true of most apartments in my area, but we knew what we were solving for when we were looking for a place initially.

 

[beeface]

I don't care what my neighbors think, and I play it loud with my windows open, and I live in an apartment!

What a self-centred attitude