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Chord Mojo

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Els

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Really? Wow. :eek:. State of the art amplifiers built today are no better than those built in the 1960s? There has been no development in electronic components in all that time? That is quite a statement. Digital audio an afterthought and not in any way improved from vinyl and tape processes used back then? Our ability to measure and analyse analogue signals is not improved in the last 60 years allowing us to understand and develop better electronics?

I really have to question why you are here.

Do you also reject all the science involved in psychoacoustics, and the learnings regarding the problems with sighted listening? Do you reject the need for controlled, blinded listening tests if you want to determine real audible differences between components?
Yes lots of developments, quite a bit of research, some innovations. Very little results.
 

voodooless

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Yes lots of developments, quite a bit of research, some innovations. Very little results.
What are you expecting?

We have DACs and amps capable of recreation the original waveform with better than 120 dB accuracy. This is getting very close to what is physically even possible.

We can design and measure speakers far better than even 10 years ago by using advanced measurement systems like Amir’s Kippel. Same goes for designing drivers, enclosures, etc. Have much more advanced understanding of room interaction of sound and how to lower those influences, nowadays even with the push of a few buttons.
 

Keith_W

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Apologies for the typical ASR pile-on. For a bunch of people supposedly interested in science, a lot of people here demonstrate a remarkable and regrettable lack of curiosity. Shame on all of you! I would be interested to know what difference you heard.

One possible reason for the difference in sound could be the output impedance of the Chord vs. the RME and how it interacts with your headphone. I have also seen various reviews showing voltage variability and noise when equipment is powered by battery vs. constant DC from the mains from power supply. It is also possible that you did not get a good level match between the Chord and the RME, so the louder one could sound better. Also, did you make sure you have any processing in the RME turned off? And yes, cognitive biases can also influence the sound. The last three would be user error, the first two would be baked into the hardware.
 

Chrispy

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He works in a "hifi" store....what higher qualification could there be? :)
 
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Els

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What are you expecting?

We have DACs and amps capable of recreation the original waveform with better than 120 dB accuracy. This is getting very close to what is physically even possible.

We can design and measure speakers far better than even 10 years ago by using advanced measurement systems like Amir’s Kippel. Same goes for designing drivers, enclosures, etc. Have much more advanced understanding of room interaction of sound and how to lower those influences, nowadays even with the push of a few buttons.
New designed drivers? Knowledgeable audiophiles and engineers like Jean Hiraga in Japan seek out old cardboard drivers from Altec and others for a reason. I attended a CES show when audio was prevalent many years ago, I heard some very good systems. I also attended the Munich show more recently. Dagostino amps, Wilson audio speaker with all the auxiliary state of the art components, systems Near a million Dollars. I did not listen to any waveforms, It sounded good, that's all. That much so called new technology, all that money, I consider, sounded good, to be a very polite put down.
 

Chrispy

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New designed drivers? Knowledgeable audiophiles and engineers like Jean Hiraga in Japan seek out old cardboard drivers from Altec and others for a reason. I attended a CES show when audio was prevalent many years ago, I heard some very good systems. I also attended the Munich show more recently. Dagostino amps, Wilson audio speaker with all the auxiliary state of the art components, systems Near a million Dollars. I did not listen to any waveforms, It sounded good, that's all. That much so called new technology, all that money, I consider, sounded good, to be a very polite put down.
Eh?
 

DonR

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New designed drivers? Knowledgeable audiophiles and engineers like Jean Hiraga in Japan seek out old cardboard drivers from Altec and others for a reason. I attended a CES show when audio was prevalent many years ago, I heard some very good systems. I also attended the Munich show more recently. Dagostino amps, Wilson audio speaker with all the auxiliary state of the art components, systems Near a million Dollars. I did not listen to any waveforms, It sounded good, that's all. That much so called new technology, all that money, I consider, sounded good, to be a very polite put down.
Sounds like, no pun intended, that you have discovered the limits of your own hearing which, like all of us, is getting worse every year.
 
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Els

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Apologies for the typical ASR pile-on. For a bunch of people supposedly interested in science, a lot of people here demonstrate a remarkable and regrettable lack of curiosity. Shame on all of you! I would be interested to know what difference you heard.

One possible reason for the difference in sound could be the output impedance of the Chord vs. the RME and how it interacts with your headphone. I have also seen various reviews showing voltage variability and noise when equipment is powered by battery vs. constant DC from the mains from power supply. It is also possible that you did not get a good level match between the Chord and the RME, so the louder one could sound better. Also, did you make sure you have any processing in the RME turned off? And yes, cognitive biases can also influence the sound. The last three would be user error, the first two would be baked into the hardware.
Thanks for your measured reply, nicer the the torrents of negatives, I have received. I did not conduct a scientific experiment, both Dacs a fine. Perhaps I overstated my preference because of all the Chord bashing I see on this sight. I'll have a closer listen with headphone although I don't like to listen with headphones, I have some old AKG K1000, somewhere, I will dig out.
 

RayDunzl

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DonR

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3 out of 11 Chord products are recommended by @amirm which I think is actually pretty good (the original Mojo was close to recommended which would have made 4). The one Chord product that consistently gets a deserved shellacking on ASR is the Dave. Flagship price, mediocre performance and a poor user interface as judged by experts in the field. Subjectively, I think the Dave is ugly but other Chord products have a rather interesting look.
 
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Els

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Sounds like, no pun intended, that you have discovered the limits of your own hearing which, like all of us, is getting worse every year.
Yes, much degradation, unfortunately. The old don't hear well, the young don't listen well. Fortunately I can spot IM distortion a mile away.
 

DonR

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Yes, much degradation, unfortunately. The old don't hear well, the young don't listen well. Fortunately I can spot IM distortion a mile away.
Was your RME generating an excess amount of IM distortion?
 
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Els

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Was your RME generating an excess amount of IM distortion?
Not at all, I plan to use it in a different system. I use it as a Dac preamp all functions off. The Mojo goes into a Burmester preamp.
 

NiagaraPete

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Thanks for your measured reply, nicer the the torrents of negatives, I have received. I did not conduct a scientific experiment, both Dacs a fine. Perhaps I overstated my preference because of all the Chord bashing I see on this sight. I'll have a closer listen with headphone although I don't like to listen with headphones, I have some old AKG K1000, somewhere, I will dig out.
Why bother, you seem convinced you have magic ability. We here rely on measurements.
 

voodooless

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New designed drivers? Knowledgeable audiophiles and engineers like Jean Hiraga in Japan seek out old cardboard drivers from Altec and others for a reason.
What reason? Nostalgia?
I attended a CES show when audio was prevalent many years ago, I heard some very good systems. I also attended the Munich show more recently. Dagostino amps, Wilson audio speaker with all the auxiliary state of the art components, systems Near a million Dollars.
They are not state of art. They are just expensive. All of those companies chose not to embrace most of the new developments made over the past few decades, although their marketing department may try to tell you otherwise.
I did not listen to any waveforms, It sounded good, that's all. That much so called new technology, all that money, I consider, sounded good, to be a very polite put down.
Your mistake is that you correlate price with performance. If ASR has shown anything, it is that this is largely not the case. In fact, the hyper expensive stuff is basically bound to measure badly. Why? Because those companies want to stand out. Being different is more important than being good.
 

voodooless

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Fortunately I can spot IM distortion a mile away.
So you like IM distortion then? Because the Mojo has more of it than the RME…
1670047731097.png


1670047801240.png
 

Keith_W

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Your mistake is that you correlate price with performance. If ASR has shown anything, it is that this is largely not the case. In fact, the hyper expensive stuff is basically bound to measure badly. Why? Because those companies want to stand out. Being different is more important than being good.

If ASR shows one thing, it is that a product complies with YOUR ideal of performance. Not everyone is after low distortion, lack of harmonics, phase coherency, lack of crosstalk, adherence to target curves, and so on. I certainly don't mind a bit of distortion if it adds to the musical experience, and in fact I actively add it with DSP. Having said that, my electronics are all as neutral as possible so that I can add exactly what I want with DSP. There are other ways to get this experience, and if people like Hiraga like the peculiar sound of their drivers and enclosures then more power to them.

While this forum is a great resource of knowledgeable people, I find the intolerance of other audio philosophies to be quite grating. Not everyone wants to go down my route of DSP everything, active speakers, room correction, and I can understand that. Some people want the pleasant sound of vinyl, the warm glow of valves, and the thick, romantic sound of old drivers. It's not MY cup of tea, but then I don't have to drink that particular cup of tea every day. Your system, your taste, your money, so it's your decision and I won't begrudge that.
 

voodooless

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If ASR shows one thing, it is that a product complies with YOUR ideal of performance.
Performance should be measurable and objective. If you call something state of art, that has a specific meaning. It means using current known and proven knowledge. Those companies don’t do that and don’t care about that. Sure, you can like it, but that doesn’t make it state of art. You can also like something that doesn’t perform well. Performance and preference are two different things.
There are other ways to get this experience, and if people like Hiraga like the peculiar sound of their drivers and enclosures then more power to them.
I don’t mind, as long as you realize why you like them. That knowledge will also help you optimize your system in the future.
While this forum is a great resource of knowledgeable people, I find the intolerance of other audio philosophies to be quite grating.
No it’s intolerable towards the pseudoscientific woo that is brought up as arguments for these products. Because there is a whole industry build around this, fleecing millions of €$£ from ignorant customers.
 
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