CHORD M-Scaler Review (Upsampler)

[iamsms]

I rather have the below. It is more fun.

I have a feeling that having that machine near your dac can improve slam quite a bit.

 

[JSmith]

This is what someone responded when I posted a link to an rtings.com report for an OLED TV, citing the measured brightness figures, on another audio forum (in a thread about 4K TVs)

Not to mention a bright retail store running fluorescent tubes and unknown panel settings is the worst possible place to assess a TV.

I rather have the below. It is more fun.

That's great, absolute gold.


JSmith

 

[Axo1989]

So you heard it and it did nothing. Pretty simple conclusion there. I mean for such a price it should be a night and day difference. I mean the mscaler alone is more than a new Sony Master 9 A95k QD-OLED TV in 65" and that is basically the best TV on the market today. Even if you prefer LG it is way below the price of a LG G2 65"+.

Not exactly, I heard it incidentally without paying particular attention. I hadn't heard of it at that time. Don't recall for certain that we turned it off, but yes maybe I did the loosest possible listening test. I wouldn't draw firm conclusions myself. But I left with new speakers and all my veils.

I'm not sure why we are talking TVs (I do like my Sony ... A1?) but it makes a change from cars.

Edit: thinking about it, the TV angle is interesting in terms of perspective on HiFi gear. On this forum, people yammer on about price. As if we don't know that price and audio quality are independent variables to a significant degree. And that once certain performance levels are met, values other than technical audio performance figure largely.

On to the TV. Did I think mine had good image quality? Sure. Did I read a review or comprehensive technical analysis? F*ck no. I wanted a 4K TV that looked good from the back. Mine has a very thin glass screen with a clean edge all around and no backside plastic cover. The arm that carries the speaker actuators (the glass screen is the speaker surface) is a nice slender curve. The rest of the electronics and connectors are in/behind the flat kickstand. The TV is designed to sit clean/directly on a Japanese tatami floor (which I have). In other words, technical performance was to a sufficiently high standard, but industrial design was the USP/UVP. And probably just an accident it was available outside the Japanese domestic market.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that idiosyncratic purchase process is universal, but I imagine a fair number of high end HiFi objects are selected in an analogous manner. They sound good, sure (albeit they may sound good to particular taste) but they have to look and feel good. Otherwise why the f*ck would you bother?

 

[Jimster480]

Not exactly, I heard it incidentally without paying particular attention. I hadn't heard of it at that time. Don't recall for certain that we turned it off, but yes maybe I did the loosest possible listening test. I wouldn't draw firm conclusions myself. But I left with new speakers and all my veils.

I'm not sure why we are talking TVs (I do like my Sony ... A1?) but it makes a change from cars.

Edit: thinking about it, the TV angle is interesting in terms of perspective on HiFi gear. On this forum, people yammer on about price. As if we don't know that price and audio quality are independent variables to a significant degree. And that once certain performance levels are met, values other than technical audio performance figure largely.

On to the TV. Did I think mine had good image quality? Sure. Did I read a review or comprehensive technical analysis? F*ck no. I wanted a 4K TV that looked good from the back. Mine has a very thin glass screen with a clean edge all around and no backside plastic cover. The arm that carries the speaker actuators (the glass screen is the speaker surface) is a nice slender curve. The rest of the electronics and connectors are in/behind the flat kickstand. The TV is designed to sit clean/directly on a Japanese tatami floor (which I have). In other words, technical performance was to a sufficiently high standard, but industrial design was the USP/UVP. And probably just an accident it was available outside the Japanese domestic market.

I’m not suggesting for a moment that idiosyncratic purchase process is universal, but I imagine a fair number of high end HiFi objects are selected in an analogous manner. They sound good, sure (albeit they may sound good to particular taste) but they have to look and feel good. Otherwise why the f*ck would you bother?

I think most audio products are selected by dealers and salesmen telling tales of majestic audio quality. People not being able to do real ABX testing and it sounding "good enough" that it works.
With TV's it is easier to compare and this stuff doesn't work.
BTW the Sony A1 is a Camera. The LG A1 is an entry level OLED TV (but you said you had Sony and mentioned the In-Display Speakers, which is a Sony thing) which is only 60hz, has no other fancy features but is OLED.
Sony A Series TV = Sony Master OLED in general. But its A8/A9 as a starting point then the submodel then year (with a letter). I have a Sony A8H-65, this is a Sony Master 8 OLED 2020 model; 65-In.
Then there was J (they skipped i) and it was A80J,A85J,A90J. This year they have A80K,A85K,A90K,A95K. Next year it should be L.

 

[JSmith]

If anyone wants to try a ludicrous number of taps for fun or comparison... for $1.68 per minute, it should work out cheaper than this Chord device;

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audiobacon.net

JSmith

 

[Axo1989]

I think most audio products are selected by dealers and salesmen telling tales of majestic audio quality. People not being able to do real ABX testing and it sounding "good enough" that it works.

You mean blind testing? Sure. But 'tales of majestic audio quality'? Over here I've shopped from Len Wallis, Sydney HiFi and Krispy, who all stock stock systems that cost more than small houses, but never heard such tales. They generally ask what you want to hear, set it up in a treated listening room and leave you to it. I'm sure some places do the hard sell though.

With TV's it is easier to compare and this stuff doesn't work.

In my experience, TV showrooms generally display goods with bizarre oversaturated settings. But I'm less into TVs than you appear to be.

BTW the Sony A1 is a Camera. The LG A1 is an entry level OLED TV (but you said you had Sony and mentioned the In-Display Speakers, which is a Sony thing) which is only 60hz, has no other fancy features but is OLED.

Sony A Series TV = Sony Master OLED in general. But its A8/A9 as a starting point then the submodel then year (with a letter). I have a Sony A8H-65, this is a Sony Master 8 OLED 2020 model; 65-In.
Then there was J (they skipped i) and it was A80J,A85J,A90J. This year they have A80K,A85K,A90K,A95K. Next year it should be L.

You're thinking of the α1 (I'm familiar with the series, had an α7R for a while). The A1 was Bravia series OLED 4K, I reckon I bought it mid 2018, as a runout.

Spoiler: Off-topicTV tangent

As I said, obviously designed for Japanese living, I'd be surprised if they sold it in the US. Looks like the closest current model is A95K (stand-wise).

.

 

[Jimster480]

You mean blind testing? Sure. But 'tales of majestic audio quality'? Over here I've shopped from Len Wallis, Sydney HiFi and Krispy, who all stock stock systems that cost more than small houses, but never heard such tales. They generally ask what you want to hear, set it up in a treated listening room and leave you to it. I'm sure some places do the hard sell though.



In my experience, TV showrooms generally display goods with bizarre oversaturated settings. But I'm less into TVs than you appear to be.



You're thinking of the α1 (I'm familiar with the series, had an α7R for a while). The A1 was Bravia series OLED 4K, I reckon I bought it mid 2018, as a runout.

Spoiler: Off-topic, so spoilered

View attachment 221607

.
As I said, obviously designed for Japanese living, I'd be surprised if they sold it in the US.

Ah you are in AUS. That model never came to the USA. Doesn't even appear in a search here when I look.

Showrooms for TVs do usually show things being over saturated, but once you get it to your house; A/B testing is much easier. You could even buy several TV's and do testing immediately. The other thing is that there are channels that do A/B testing and record it all. However they can't do that for audio, since you wouldn't be able to hear it in the first place.

In terms of audio though, it depends on the dealer and where you go. What I meant about the marketing though is online, with the videos and stories... back that up with useful idiots who parrot it and you have a real problem.

 

[JSmith]

Ah you are in AUS. That model never came to the USA. Doesn't even appear in a search here when I look.

Aus model was A1, US model was A1E;

Sony A1E OLED Review (XBR55A1E, XBR65A1E, XBR77A1E)

The Sony A1E OLED TV is an excellent smart 4k TV that offers exceptional picture quality thanks to its perfectly deep and uniform blacks. It can produce a wide r...

www.rtings.com

Now back on topic!

I have a feeling that having that machine near your dac can improve slam quite a bit.

Oh yeah for sure... milky high's, tight bass, angelic mid's and the whole seven veils will be lifted.


JSmith

 

[Axo1989]

Aus model was A1, US model was A1E;

Sony A1E OLED Review (XBR55A1E, XBR65A1E, XBR77A1E)

The Sony A1E OLED TV is an excellent smart 4k TV that offers exceptional picture quality thanks to its perfectly deep and uniform blacks. It can produce a wide r...

www.rtings.com

Now back on topic!

Oh yeah for sure... milky high's, tight bass, angelic mid's and the whole seven veils will be lifted.


JSmith

Obviously, those misplaced apostrophes are weighing down your veils.

 

[JSmith]

Obviously, those misplaced apostrophes are weighing down your veils.

They are... clearly I arsed it up and I am now in the fetal position.

So I've heard M Scaler, but not really heard it.

This should probably be the new product description on the Chord site for the M Scaler.


JSmith

 

[formdissolve]

Aus model was A1, US model was A1E;

Sony A1E OLED Review (XBR55A1E, XBR65A1E, XBR77A1E)

The Sony A1E OLED TV is an excellent smart 4k TV that offers exceptional picture quality thanks to its perfectly deep and uniform blacks. It can produce a wide r...

www.rtings.com

Now back on topic!



JSmith

Funny enough, Sony sources their OLED panels from LG.

 

[voodooless]

Funny enough, Sony sources their OLED panels from LG.

LG Display != LG Electronics

They have the same parent, but otherwise are two independent companies.

 

[JSmith]

Funny enough, Sony sources their OLED panels from LG.

All WOLED panels are made by LG Display... just because a certain panel is used, don't mean it's driven by the same hardware or software though. Sony have better video processing which is why they can get more out of the same panel than LG, but as you know they charge a premium and often any differences are negligible in real world viewing.


JSmith

 

[Chromatischism]

A site I just found with jitter examples: http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/what-does-jitter-sound-like

I've never heard it before so I thought it was interesting.

 

[JohnA]

I have a feeling that having that machine near your dac can improve slam quite a bit.

Yes, but what if it becomes too analytical?
Clinical even?

We can't have that..

 

[amirm]

I’m sorry, but you haven’t done nearly enough measurements with this DDC. Allow me to enlighten you.

Your analysis falls flat on its face. Why? The whole point of the M-Scaler is to improve temporal resolution of a DAC’s digital filter. Aka, to improve timing performance. You don’t test the frequency domain for this, not unless 1) you have an agenda or 2) you lack the knowledge to measure timing performance.

The correct set of tests you should do are as follows:

1. Energy Time Curve
2. Impulse Response
3. Phase accuracy
4. Step response

Testing how hard of a punch you can throw doesn’t tell you how good of a fighter in the ring you are, just as testing the frequency domain with sine waves doesn’t test timing performance in a digital processor.

This review is about as useless as a chocolate fireplace. It doesn’t test the manufacturers claims. At all. It’s a very limited and highly ignorant analysis of a product. The result of this ignorance? Further dividing the subjectivist and objectivist camps with misinformation.

Not impressed.

Time resolution doesn't need improving. Or do you think every piece of content out there was broken when approved by talent and engineer? Learn what these buzzwords mean before repeating them. ETC? Good grief.....

 

[voodooless]

No DAC currently exceeds the microsecond capabilities of our hearing system as tested by scientists.

I bet you think sample rate is a major factor in timing resolution? The more samples, the better the resolution?

 

[Purité Audio]

Your ignorance is showing Top G
Keith

 

[Arnas]

Yes, it does need improving. Why? There’s objective tests that have been carried out by scientists to test both other animals and our temporal resolving capabilities.

There is also one website that actually does take the effort the measure a few areas of timing performance. I’ve looked at multiple DACs. From cheapo budget crap, NOS DACs, high-end ESS chip based DACs and Chord DACs. Only the Chord DACs have both a proper brick wall filter to stop ultrasonics and extremely good time domain performance.

No DAC currently exceeds the microsecond capabilities of our hearing system as tested by scientists. To claim crap made with off the shelf chips that have very mediocre timing performance is anywhere close to perfect is asinine.

Keep kissing Watts A**
Just repeating Your gods words.

 

[BDWoody]

Not impressed.

So, you like yours?