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Chord just released a new upscaler: Quartet

Probably I do not understand what the upscaler really does. For me I doubt that timing can be improved with upscaling compared to the original audio data. What is not in the input can not be at the output. Maybe someone can tell what is the technology?
The idea isn’t that the upscaler magically creates information that wasn’t present in the original recording. If that were true, it would be inventing data rather than reconstructing it.


The argument made by Chord is that a sampled waveform contains enough information to reconstruct the original analogue signal, but the accuracy of that reconstruction depends on the digital filter used. A conventional DAC filter is limited by processing power and therefore uses a relatively short filter. Chord’s upscalers use very large FPGA-based filters with vastly more taps, attempting to better estimate what the waveform looked like between the recorded samples.


In theory, this doesn’t add new information; it attempts to recover timing information that is already implicit in the sampled data but has not been reconstructed as accurately by a shorter filter.


Whether that reconstruction is actually audible is the real debate. Many engineers argue that modern DACs already reconstruct the signal well enough that further improvements are insignificant. Chord and some listeners believe the improvements in transient accuracy, imaging and perceived realism remain audible.


So the claim is not “more information out than went in,” but rather “more accurate reconstruction of the information that was already there.

The theory is perfectly reasonable from a signal-processing perspective. The unanswered question is whether the difference between a very good reconstruction and an even better reconstruction is worth £25,000. That’s where the engineering discussion ends and the subjective listening debate begins.
 
The question is, is the difference audible and the answer is no.
Keith
 
The idea isn’t that the upscaler magically creates information that wasn’t present in the original recording. If that were true, it would be inventing data rather than reconstructing it.


The argument made by Chord is that a sampled waveform contains enough information to reconstruct the original analogue signal, but the accuracy of that reconstruction depends on the digital filter used. A conventional DAC filter is limited by processing power and therefore uses a relatively short filter. Chord’s upscalers use very large FPGA-based filters with vastly more taps, attempting to better estimate what the waveform looked like between the recorded samples.


In theory, this doesn’t add new information; it attempts to recover timing information that is already implicit in the sampled data but has not been reconstructed as accurately by a shorter filter.


Whether that reconstruction is actually audible is the real debate. Many engineers argue that modern DACs already reconstruct the signal well enough that further improvements are insignificant. Chord and some listeners believe the improvements in transient accuracy, imaging and perceived realism remain audible.


So the claim is not “more information out than went in,” but rather “more accurate reconstruction of the information that was already there.

The theory is perfectly reasonable from a signal-processing perspective. The unanswered question is whether the difference between a very good reconstruction and an even better reconstruction is worth £25,000. That’s where the engineering discussion ends and the subjective listening debate begins.
Makes sense to have a better reconstruction when the filter can be made easier. But instead of this I buy higher resolution audio right from the start which is now widely available. When digitizing myself analog signals then chosing a higher sample rate is better for play back.
 
From a Chord paper: "It takes the digital file and repairs it, adding back the information lost between the samples, then it sends the repaired file to the DAC. The M Scaler increases the sampling rate from 44,100 times per second (44.1 KHZ) by a multiple of 16,to 705,600 times per second (706.6 KHz). With 705,600 file and repairs it, adding back the information lost between the samples, then it sends the repaired file to the DAC. " Sounds like its adding the information thats "lost".....hence their claim,which is adding back information, leading to more information; rather than...... "more accurate reconstruction of the information that was already there".The information is lost, well never been acquired in the1st place, adding back what's "lost" makes no sense, its making up something to replace whats been "lost"/never been there in the1st place, which is vastly different. No wonder it does zilch for sound, its sleight of hand...BS.
 
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Rob watts claims to hear noise at -300dB. If he wasn't saying that in jest in the first place, this is a clear sign that he is either delusional or mocking his customers.

If you can hear something 300dB down, you could easily hear someone farting on the other side of the world. It's a joke. Chord products are a joke that pays Mr. Watt's bills. He's a very high-priced comedian who happens to tell jokes via electronics.

Him saying he hears noise at -300dB is actually orders of magnitude MORE ridiculous than a car designer telling people he tests the top speed of his cars by running alongside them at 200mph. People can run 20mph so that's only an exaggeration of 10x. 300dB is thousands of times sillier. I am still not over this.
 
From a Chord paper: "It takes the digital file and repairs it, adding back the information lost between the samples, then it sends the repaired file to the DAC. The M Scaler increases the sampling rate from 44,100 times per second (44.1 KHZ) by a multiple of 16,to 705,600 times per second (706.6 KHz). With 705,600 file and repairs it, adding back the information lost between the samples, then it sends the repaired file to the DAC. " Sounds like its adding the information "lost".....hence their claim,which is adding more information, rather than "more accurate reconstruction of the information that was already there".The information is lost,adding back whats lost makes no sense,its making up something to replace whats been lost which is different.No wonder it does zilch for sound,its sleight of hand...BS.
I think you’re taking the marketing wording more literally than Rob Watts intends.


If information is genuinely lost, then of course it cannot be recovered. Shannon, Nyquist and information theory settled that decades ago.


The argument isn’t that the M Scaler somehow knows what was originally recorded and “puts it back”. The argument is that the sampled data already contains sufficient information to reconstruct the original analogue waveform, provided the reconstruction filter is long enough and accurate enough.


Every DAC already does this. The only difference is the sophistication of the interpolation filter being used. Chord’s claim is simply that a much longer filter produces a more accurate estimate of the waveform between the samples.


Whether that estimate is audibly superior is a separate question, but it isn’t violating information theory or creating information from nothing. It’s making a statistical estimate of the most likely signal between the recorded sample points, exactly as every oversampling DAC already does.


So I’d agree that “adding back lost information” is unfortunate marketing language. “Improving the accuracy of waveform reconstruction” would be a much more technically defensible description.
 
Accuracy compared to what exactly? whats the reference/standard that represents perfection? Its not just unfortunate its utterly incoherent, like the product, it makes no sense...... hence no improvement to sound.BS language, BS product. As for taking the marketing literally ,well thats the claims Chord make, we have to take them at face value in order to evaluate them. And their marketing/claims dont stand up to scrutiny , as does the scaler when scrutinised by measurements. Sad thing is that people have spent 1000s to get no improvement. This is why we have ASR to debunk claims and get to the truth. These devices are an affront full stop. Watts is a king size BS merchant and has been proven so with remarkable ease at -300db,lol.
 
Accuracy compared to what exactly? whats the reference/standard that represents perfection? Its not just unfortunate its utterly incoherent, like the product, it makes no sense...... hence no improvement to sound.BS language, BS product. As for taking the marketing literally ,well thats the claims Chord make, we have to take them at face value in order to evaluate them. And their marketing/claims dont stand up to scrutiny , as does the scaler when scrutinised by measurements. Sad thing is that people have spent 1000s to get no improvement. This is why we have ASR to debunk claims and get to the truth. These devices are an affront full stop. Watts is a king size BS merchant and has been proven so with remarkable ease at -300db,lol.
I can’t believe l now find myself defending chord, but I try to be balanced in my critique. Re the -300DB business , I think you’re conflating two different claims. Saying that extremely small timing errors may have audible consequences is not the same thing as saying humans can hear a -300 dB signal directly. One may still disagree with Watts’ conclusions, but those are fundamentally different propositions. The interesting question isn’t whether -300 dB tones are audible—they clearly aren’t. The question is whether improvements in interpolation accuracy beyond what conventional DACs achieve are audible, and if so by how much.

And between you and me, having followed the Chord debates for years, I think Watts is a genuinely clever engineer who sometimes explains things in ways that make sceptical engineers immediately reach for the flamethrower.
 
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I can’t believe l now find myself defending chord, but I try to be balanced in my critique. Re the -300DB business , I think you’re conflating two different claims. Saying that extremely small timing errors may have audible consequences is not the same thing as saying humans can hear a -300 dB signal directly. One may still disagree with Watts’ conclusions, but those are fundamentally different propositions. The interesting question isn’t whether -300 dB tones are audible—they clearly aren’t. The question is whether improvements in interpolation accuracy beyond what conventional DACs achieve are audible, and if so by how much.

And between you and me, having followed the Chord debates for years, I think Watts is a genuinely clever engineer who sometimes explains things in ways that make sceptical engineers immediately reach for the flamethrower.
"The question is whether improvements in interpolation accuracy beyond what conventional DACs achieve are audible, and if so by how much." Easy answer my friend: Zilch .Amir resolved that, with ease. Sometimes nothing can mean a lot.
 
The argument made by Chord is that a sampled waveform contains enough information to reconstruct the original analogue signal, but the accuracy of that reconstruction depends on the digital filter used. A conventional DAC filter is limited by processing power and therefore uses a relatively short filter. Chord’s upscalers use very large FPGA-based filters with vastly more taps, attempting to better estimate what the waveform looked like between the recorded samples.
This argument is at odds with understood audio science and almost certainly cynical and insincere.
 
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Rob watts claims to hear noise at -300dB. If he wasn't saying that in jest in the first place, this is a clear sign that he is either delusional or mocking his customers.

If you can hear something 300dB down, you could easily hear someone farting on the other side of the world. It's a joke.
you are forgetting the well established physical fact that sound travels much less efficiently through Earth's atmosphere than it does through the medium of pure snake oil
 
Re the -300DB business , I think you’re conflating two different claims. Saying that extremely small timing errors may have audible consequences is not the same thing as saying humans can hear a -300 dB signal directly. One may still disagree with Watts’ conclusions, but those are fundamentally different propositions.

Watts proposition is that he can hear the noise floor of noise shapers to -350dB, and that the amplitude of smalls signals need to be accurate to -301dB for good depth reproduction. He also states he doesn't know why that is, it’s is experience...
 
Despite all the nonsense, and the price and the bare arse nerve of asking such a price… I still want two of these,

I know I shouldn’t and I’m thoroughly ashamed, but I can’t help it…. :facepalm:

5A19E93D-C5EE-4F4B-A8F7-F4C5EC8C6338.jpeg
 
Makes sense to have a better reconstruction when the filter can be made easier. But instead of this I buy higher resolution audio right from the start which is now widely available. When digitizing myself analog signals then chosing a higher sample rate is better for play back.
Higher resolution audio files still need to be decoded (converted) by a DAC so you’re still at the mercy of whatever digital architecture is in use.
Every PCM DAC, whether it’s fed 44.1 kHz, 96 kHz, 192 kHz, or even 768 kHz, still has to reconstruct an analogue waveform. How it does that depends on its digital filter, interpolation algorithm, oversampling strategy.
And yes, a higher sampling rate means the ADC captures more genuine samples of the analogue waveform, reducing the amount of interpolation required during reconstruction.
 
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It’s a crock.
Keith
 
If you can hear something 300dB down, you could easily hear someone farting on the other side of the world.
No, I think it is a much larger distance. See the Shoutometer Deluxe:
It even mentions Rob Watt ...
Him saying he hears noise at -300dB is actually orders of magnitude MORE ridiculous than a car designer telling people he tests the top speed of his cars by running alongside them at 200mph. People can run 20mph so that's only an exaggeration of 10x. 300dB is thousands of times sillier. I am still not over this.
Claiming to hear 300 dB means 180 dB more than what is really possible (120 dB). Those 180 dB are not a factor of thousands, but 1.000.000.000! Try first your self:
 
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No, I think it is a much larger distance. See the [URL='https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-shoutometer.2555/]Shoutometer[/URL] Deluxe:
It even mentions Rob Watt ...

Claiming to hear 300 dB means 180 dB more than what is really possible (120 dB). Those 180 dB are not a factor of thousands, but 1.000.000.000! Try first your self:
I also did a fun thought experiment once to see how many electrons difference this would be at the analog level:

 
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