• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

CHORD Hugo TT2 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 82 22.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 126 34.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 123 33.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 34 9.3%

  • Total voters
    365

Phorize

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
1,539
Likes
2,071
Location
U.K
Then you say most advertisements are a scam and deceptive?
To be fair, we can't accuse the Chord marketing material for Hugo 2 of being a scam, because as you can read for yourself, it doesn't make a single discernable claim regarding the audible benefits of the Hugo 2:

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo-2

What do you make of this?
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,944
Likes
3,547
Read my posts, but the short answer is that the filters differ in the first Hugo 2 test

As already explained; the 2 Hugo DAC tests concern 2 different devices (there's 4 years between these test). On what bases did you determine the frequency response of these particular devices is effectively identical and Amir screwed up? Where you the one who send these 2 devices to Amir, and did you have them doublechecked by someone else? Do you even know if their construction and firmware is identical?

And how big is the difference in frequency response? 0,3dB at 10kHz. On the edge of audible for most people. That's sufficient for you to suggest the measurements on this forum can't be trusted?
 
Last edited:

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,035
Likes
1,452
Location
Dallas, TX
Read my posts, but the short answer is that the filters differ in the first Hugo 2 test, the sound of the Hugo 2 do not show the effect that the CHIRP test seems to indicate and that Rob Watts never claimed to hear 300 dB phenomena. I never claimed that cables sound different, I know they measure different. Maybe confused about the Hugo 2 and cable differences test where I sarcastically mentioned that Amir measured different jitter for the Hugo 2??
Cables measure differently?
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,035
Likes
1,452
Location
Dallas, TX
Then you say most advertisements are a scam and deceptive?
Chord’s are, yes. Most of them. They certainly don’t explain where they come up with their prices. And by withholding measurements they are deceptive by omission. If you hadn’t already shelled out a fortune for them and were unbiased yourself, you would hopefully acknowledge this. Your insistence in doubling down on the objective evidence is reminiscent of Stockholm Syndrome.
 

TabCam

Active Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2020
Messages
199
Likes
170
As already explained; the 2 Hugo DAC tests concern 2 different devices (there's 4 years between these test). On what bases did you determine the frequency response of these particular devices is effectively identical and Amir screwed up? Where you the one who send these 2 devices to Amir, and did you have them doublechecked by someone else? Do you even know if their construction and firmware is identical?

And how big is the difference in frequency response? 0,3dB at 10kHz. On the edge of audible for most people. That's sufficient for you to suggest the measurements on this forum can't be trusted?
What does seem more plausible, a measurement error from Amir or Chord changed the code as to implement exactly the same filters? And would Amir not more likely make an operator error changing the crossfeed instead of the filter? Why would Chord change the firmware as it serves no purpose to change something that was working perfectly fine? And I do not see a firmware release on their website so do you know of the existence of different firmware versions?

You can add one more to your line of questions, why would Amir test a fine measuring device again?

And no, a single mistake is by far not sufficient. I do not trust the CHIRP measurement either but I do not have an APX555. The jitter test for the Hugo 2 is not updated after the second measurement so to me it casts doubts.

I do not mind counter arguments etc. and we dot have to agree but judging how people post deceitful quotations, put words I have never said in my mouth I find it a highly toxic group think environment here at ASR. I will leave it at that.
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,035
Likes
1,452
Location
Dallas, TX
The few times I've posted here, I found the exact same - it's like a cult that tell themselves all DACs sound the same to rationalize... something, I don't know what
What exactly are you expecting a DAC to “sound like” other than the original master from which it is sampled? If a DAC has a sound, it’s not doing its job! Why is this so challenging for you to understand?

Your DAC is a computer. It’s converting the digital sample of an analog master back to the original with the highest fidelity possible. That means lowest noise, lowest distortion, and the least errors. All of these are easily measurable—it’s not that the folks on here believe all DACs sound the same, it’s that all of us should want a good one to “sound” like the source material as the artist intended it!

It’s your amp, and more importantly your DSPs, ASPs and headphones/speakers that are there for you to add coloration to the “sound” to your liking. If you believe anything else, you’re letting manufacturer marketing departments do your thinking for you.

I used to do exactly that until a couple of folks on here challenged me to stop for a second and think about this logically, and saved me a ton of money. Save your cash for your headphones, a good DAC should not be costly!
 
Last edited:

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,119
Likes
12,309
Location
London
Dacs can of course sound ‘different’ but those differences will be explicit in their respective measurements.
Keith
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,035
Likes
1,452
Location
Dallas, TX
I have three DACs sitting on my desk at this very moment
each one sounds very different from each other
If you were here listening, you'd agree, but you're not, so I guess just... don't believe me?
I do believe you—just not for the reasons you want me to. They likely all have different output voltages, some may have preamp stages where others don’t, and above all, our ears betray us in ABX tests—this has been definitively proven. Some days I think my whole system sounds better than others. How should I explain that? If we designed a double-blind test with an adequate sample size, whatever differences you think you are hearing would settle out to a wash. That’s how unethical brands can price their DACs for thousands of dollars with outrageous profit margins—DACs are not costly to design, at all.

Most of the DACs on here differ in ranges beyond the limits of our hearing. The bottom line is that the good ones should sound like the source material and nothing else. And if one DAC differs by a half volt, you’ll likely think the louder one sounds better.

But think what you want, it’s your wallet. Nobody needs more than one DAC unless they are equipping more than one room, I’m sorry!
 

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,877
Likes
2,913
Location
Sydney
Much of this site is a substantiation of unbelievable claims. It’s about audio science vs marketing claptrap. For me it has been invaluable in separating hype from truth, which is what any consumer hopes for when making a decision about how to part ways with their hard-earned dollars.

There are hundreds of sites like this for other products and industries—a banal example is Consumer Reports. You rarely see appliance manufacturers savaging the efforts of those sites, but audio is itself a deeply “personal” endeavor, and one that is particularly rife with unctuous salesman peddling mistruths—so much so that a cliched term has been co-opted to describe this phenomenon, namely “snake oil”.

I enjoyed reading this post. I'll offer some counterpoints. Not to be too negative, but I hope also interesting.

HiFi publications receive review samples from product makers/sellers, the relevant material considerations that may bias review include that supply, and income from advertising. Consumer Reports declares strict protocols for sourcing products to test (including secret buyers, retail shopping and multiple samples) in order to eliminate such sources of bias. ASR does something in-between, advertising revenue is avoided but the material consideration of review product supply from makers/sellers is still open, so conflict of interest is implicit (note that this is distinct from expressed bias, which may or may not result).

There is no other sensory organ we have that is more susceptible to cognitive biases than the human ear. We can immediately tell if something tastes bad. We can quickly sense if sheets aren’t soft enough. No matter how lusciously a candle is described, if it smells like a dirty sock we put it back. And our eyes are fairly adept at sensing defects in build quality or other aesthetic assets—although admittedly it can be somewhat challenging to decide which television has superior image reproduction, because the differences can be subtle. But for some reason we still don’t fret with indecision after we buy a TV—it goes on the wall and we forget about it for years.

The issue of cognitive bias is complex, but I think assigning special weakness to the ear (or ear-brain) is tendentious. We can be misled by sight, taste, touch and smell quite easily also. The examples you cite for other senses are gross differences more easily distinguished. We can often hear gross differences just fine as well. The obvious difficulty with music is that we experience it though time, so comparing performance (of reproduction systems) is more sequential than parallel, which is difficult.

But our ears constantly betray us, and since music can be such a passionate hobby and most of us aren’t sufficiently trained to spot dubious scientific jargon, we are particularly susceptible to specious benchmarks like price and confusing technical gobbledygook that can be mistaken for innovation. There are innumerable audio myths like “burn in” and the sonic “differences” between different conductive materials in wire that have no basis in fact, but are nevertheless pervasively given credence not only by fellow enthusiasts but by manufacturers themselves. Many user manuals still recommend burn in, and Moon Audio is a site that is almost defined by expensive headphone cable mythology—they actually force you to deselect one of their curated Dragon Cables when purchasing a headphone.

I'm sure there is an interesting subtext to regularly invoking trust and betrayal in the narrative. Quite a few ASR participants describe their road-to-Damascus conversions as the veils of audiophile myth were pierced. I don't think I was ever so deep into such audiophilia, so I don't bear that formative emotional scarring. Also, I think trust (in external entities) is a nonsense concept too tangled up in expectation and moral judgement, I avoid it where possible. So instead of trust/betrayal I think probability/error makes more sense in day-to-day judgement.

The audio industry has capitalized on this cognitive weakness of ours by forging one of the most outlandish markup and price gouging heists any market has ever witnessed. There is literally nothing more arbitrary than the price points set by so called blue chip brands like Chord, dCS, PS Audio, Naim, etc. Say what you want about measurements, but there’s a very good reason why many high end brands don’t publish their own measurements for their products. They’ve learned that they don’t need to. They establish the value of their brand reputation based on their price points and need only to ensure that their wares meet the threshold of acceptability for their respective segments.

You are no less susceptible to these fraudulent practices than anyone else, and it is your wallet at stake. Ask yourself what factors justify the cost of something like the DAVE—where is that $14,000 price coming from, for an eight year old product that has long since recouped its R&D investment? How is it that brands like Topping and Gustard can sustain a profit producing components that perform on the bench at least as well as these so-called premium products at literally 1/20th of the margins, right from launch?

I can read (and enjoy) the review of a product like DAVE and be in no danger of buying one, so the stakes are relatively low here.

On the pricing and margins I think you assume facts not in evidence. Chinese manufacturing at scale versus boutique manufacturing in the UK (for example) require different business models.

I consider the specious practices of industry tycoons like Rob Watts to be deeply personal. These predatory pricing strategies are an insult to our love of music and to the sacrifices we make to bring it into our homes. Watts isn’t the slightest bit worried about your feelings, and he isn’t in any way being a professional collaborator or colleague with the honest engineers that visit sites like ASR—earnest pros who have deep respect for the science informing their efforts and integrity behind their work.

With all this in mind, ask yourself again why we should be polite, and why we shouldn’t take their arrogance, subterfuge and dirty dealings personally? They’re doing just fine, and they don’t mind savaging the reputations of others in pursuit of their own selfish aims—I say they can take it.

I agree you can take it personally, but I'm not sure why I would want to. Some find it invigorating, but I find living in a state of constant moral hysteria stressful and unpleasant. Interesting use of sacrifice though, as you've also invoked betrayal (see above). What's going on there?
 
Last edited:

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,877
Likes
2,913
Location
Sydney
The few times I've posted here, I found the exact same - it's like a cult that tell themselves all DACs sound the same to rationalize... something, I don't know what

Well, internet forum comments are internet forum comments. I use the ignore function for egregious examples of keyboard machismo.:)

But look at the poll: two thirds think this DAC is fine or not terrible, so the majority aren't getting carried away. I said it was fine, because it is. A bit pricey, but value for money is subject to extrinsic variables like disposable income—and bench tests aren't the only measure of the qualities of a consumer device—so I prefer separate calculus for that.
 

Geert

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
1,944
Likes
3,547
What does seem more plausible, a measurement error from Amir or Chord changed the code as to implement exactly the same filters?

Do you really believe it's that difficult to switch between different filters of DAC connected to a fixed measurement rig?

If you compare the filter measurements of both versions of the Hugo you'll notice the old version has a cutoff frequency less than 20 kHz while the measurements of the newer one has a cutoff frequency of 22 kHz. This proofs Chord changed the filters, and makes it very plausible they improved the frequency response at the same time.

(Old review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hord-hugo-2-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2349/,
new review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hord-hugo-2-review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/)

Why would Chord change the firmware as it serves no purpose to change something that was working perfectly fine?

How do you know it was working perfectly fine? The measurements show it might not have been perfectly fine, requiring Cord to improve it. They probably did so when increasing the filters cutoff frequency.

You can add one more to your line of questions, why would Amir test a fine measuring device again?

That's not just a question. It's implying @amirm remeasured the device because he knew somethings was wrong with his measurements.

I find it a highly toxic group think environment here at ASR. I will leave it at that.

The fact is, the answer to the quotes above is that you don't know anything about why the measurements of the Hugo differ or why they were remeasured. Actually, the difference in filter cutoff frequency indicate Chord changed the filter firmware in the newer version of the device. This is the umpteenth time I had to explain you made a mistake in the interpretation of measurements. Nevertheless you made up your mind Amir is making errors and might even be dishonest. All your comments show how biased you are.
Maybe first have a look at yourself before blaming others of toxic behavior.
 
Last edited:

Garrincha

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
659
Likes
816
I have three DACs sitting on my desk at this very moment
each one sounds very different from each other
If you were here listening, you'd agree, but you're not, so I guess just... don't believe me?
You might get bored by the question, but did you really compare these DACs in a blind, level-matched listening test? This is something that can be kind of a revelation. I once bought a highly acclaimed headphone amplifier and than compared it with the output of my older but still quite good integrated amp (T+A 1500). I could not hear any difference and sold the headphone amp. Then I compared a much more expensive DAC I had to a cheaper one. I made really extensive test and could not hear any differences. Again I sold the more expensive DAC. Where the difference in sound lies is source material, speakers (+room) and headphones, not amps and DACs. Once having understood this, enables one to invest the money much more intelligently.
 

Ken Tajalli

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
2,037
Likes
1,813
Location
London UK
What does seem more plausible, a measurement error from Amir or Chord changed the code as to implement exactly the same filters? And would Amir not more likely make an operator error changing the crossfeed instead of the filter? Why would Chord change the firmware as it serves no purpose to change something that was working perfectly fine? And I do not see a firmware release on their website so do you know of the existence of different firmware versions?

You can add one more to your line of questions, why would Amir test a fine measuring device again?

And no, a single mistake is by far not sufficient. I do not trust the CHIRP measurement either but I do not have an APX555. The jitter test for the Hugo 2 is not updated after the second measurement so to me it casts doubts.

I do not mind counter arguments etc. and we dot have to agree but judging how people post deceitful quotations, put words I have never said in my mouth I find it a highly toxic group think environment here at ASR. I will leave it at that.
I don't believe Chord has changed Hugo2 in any way.
What you got to bear in mind is that two of the filters operate in 256fs, and the other two operate in 16fs.
In each groip of two filters, one has a slight audio-band HF filter, while the other one is flat.
Amir did not make a mistake, they are two pairs of filters, two by two have identical FR, but different oversampling number.
Checking only the frequency response of the filters is not constructive. The filters do not operate in the same manner as ESS or similar DAC chips, effectively applying just HF roll offs of different rates.
Again two filters cause the device to do a 256x oversampling, while the other two cause the device to do a 16x oversampling.
The nature of these filters is unlike, standard chip based DACs.
From manual:

1662412819142.png
 

srkbear

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,035
Likes
1,452
Location
Dallas, TX
I enjoyed reading this post. I'll offer some counterpoints. Not to be too negative, but I hope also interesting.

HiFi publications receive review samples from product makers/sellers, the relevant material considerations that may bias review include that supply, and income from advertising. Consumer Reports declares strict protocols for sourcing products to test (including secret buyers, retail shopping and multiple samples) in order to eliminate such sources of bias. ASR does something in-between, advertising revenue is avoided but the material consideration of review product supply from makers/sellers is still open, so conflict of interest is implicit (note that this is distinct from expressed bias, which may or may not result).



The issue of cognitive bias is complex, but I think assigning special weakness to the ear (or ear-brain) is tendentious. We can be misled by sight, taste, touch and smell quite easily also. The examples you cite for other senses are gross differences more easily distinguished. We can often hear gross differences just fine as well. The obvious difficulty with music is that we experience it though time, so comparing performance (of reproduction systems) is more sequential than parallel, which is difficult.



I'm sure there is an interesting subtext to regularly invoking trust and betrayal in the narrative. Quite a few ASR participants describe their road-to-Damascus conversions as the veils of audiophile myth were pierced. I don't think I was ever so deep into such audiophilia, so I don't bear that formative emotional scarring. Also, I think trust (in external entities) is a nonsense concept too tangled up in expectation and moral judgement, I avoid it where possible. So instead of trust/betrayal I think probability/error makes more sense in day-to-day judgement.



I can read (and enjoy) the review of a product like DAVE and be in no danger of buying one, so the stakes are relatively low here.

On the pricing and margins I think you assume facts not in evidence. Chinese manufacturing at scale versus boutique manufacturing in the UK (for example) require different business models.



I agree you can take it personally, but I'm not sure why I would want to. Some find it invigorating, but I find living in a state of constant moral hysteria stressful and unpleasant. Interesting use of sacrifice though, as you've also invoked betrayal (see above). What's going on there?
Lol…well I’m not sure what you enjoyed about my post exactly, other than the opportunity to produce counter arguments with somewhat surgical precision :D

You make some good points, there’s definitely a couple of touchés in there, and I think I’m going to have to be lame and not offer such a thoughtful response in return—I think I’ve already beaten my original point to death. I’ve already made it somewhat hysterically clear that I have some resentments towards Chord for seducing me into an outlandish expense that I later regretted. And I’m fully aware that I chose to be seduced.

And that’s perhaps the only point on which I’d like to congenially disagree—the one about the stakes being low for reading product reviews. You’re an informed consumer with a serious investment in the science of audio—at the very least you’ve shrugged off cognitive bias denialism. Many folks, myself included in a not-so-distant past life, are not so enlightened, and can easily fall prey to false advertising. The vicious battles between this site and those such as Head-Fi are proof alone that reviews matter.

I can relate to the folks who get defensive about the brands they’ve invested in, because like many of them I made significant sacrifices to put together what I have, and I’ve felt that crumminess when someone questions your choices and leaves you wondering if you made a terrible mistake. Even with all I’ve learned, I still catch myself returning to the same reviews over and over to reassure myself that I’ve made the right decision about my headphones. I’m not supposed to admit that on these sites but it’s the truth.

I also can’t explain why one negative review, or a new product deemed superior to what I have, can suddenly make my music sound despairingly unsatisfying, when the day before I loved it. Speaking only for myself, music has been my most consuming passion all of my life, and the quality of the gear that I use to enjoy it is very personal—for me.

I hope that explains why I can’t help but take it personally when folks like Watts attempt to exploit my weaknesses with technical claptrap that suggests wisdom beyond my reach, promises of ecstatic pleasures that can only be demonstrated through ownership instead of data, and prices only within my grasp if I am willing to spend until it hurts. Being presented with evidence that his claims are unsubstantiated, at these price points at least, is almost a betrayal. I guess the options to cope with it are either denial or to get pissed. I’ve chosen both strategies in the past and frankly, they both suck. When he gets smug about it, I do kinda wish that his nose would light up so people can line up to take turns punching it—and once and for all, on this topic I promise I’m done…
 
Last edited:

AdamG

Debunking the “Infomercial” hawkers & fabricators
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,717
Likes
15,554
Location
Reality

JSmith

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
5,208
Likes
13,408
Location
Algol Perseus
it's like a cult that tell themselves all DACs sound the same
So after not convincing anyone here of anything, now you move to the ol' tale about well measuring DAC's sounding different? I feel you're starting to clutch at straws here.
I will leave it at that.
That's probably for the best.


JSmith
 
Top Bottom