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CHORD Hugo TT2 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 80 23.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 120 34.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 115 33.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 31 9.0%

  • Total voters
    346

Phorize

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You keep saying this. What is "personal" about the comments here? Did folks talk about his family life? Where he lives? What car he drives? What?
@amirm I don't think it's a huge problem in the forums, but there are a few examples of posts about Rob Watts come across as personal. Rather than play out the detail in this thread (especially as an official review thread) I've flagged a couple of them using the report function. The examples are more infantile than malicious, but in my view add grist to the mill of anyone wanting to paint ASR as a bad actor. These days it's very common online (and I'm sorry to say in the humanities departments of many top universities) to both strawman the 'oppositions' arguments and produce adhominem by histrionically quoting them out of context and in bad faith, or just recklessly. We do have a couple of members who highlight these isolated posts in support of their story that you are an industry troll and ASR members (including myself) are mindless zealots. That's obviously completely false, but nevertheless thats how it's presented elsewhere complete with 'mined' quotes from ASR members. It's impossible to avoid being quoted in bad faith, but the posts that I have highlighted privately make it too easy in my opinion.

It may be more helpful for members to use the report function in future rather than discussing in the open forum.

I have been a very critical voice on Chords marketing strategy which I think I can fairly summarise as 'keep the advertising regulators happy by sticking to the facts in company published literature, but either encourage or tolerate a rockstar engineering consultant whose name is synonymous with Chord Electronics making dubious claims that just happen to increase the perceived value of the product in a way that would absolutely breach the regulations pertaining to substantiation of advertising claims if made by the company'. In my field we have a term for Chords behaviour; lawfully audacious.

With respect to Watts himself, I think it's at best naive for him to not to expect criticism or ridicule, but I'm sure we would all agree that personal ridicule is not evidenced to be very influential behaviour and it's possible to squander the moral upper hand by appearing to have an axe to grind, which I am certain that you and the wider membership don't.
 
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srkbear

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I think you need to chill, I've already told you why I made my original post and the fact I wasn't referring to any given individual - as I said I didn't pay attention nor was interested in who specifically were entering into the territory of "personal attacks". I'm not interested in you personally for whatever you may have written on Head-Fi nor for what you may have written in this thread re Rob Watts. Lol, it's not about you, even if you might want it to be.
I’m sorry. After your post, I felt a bit misunderstood about my original intentions in posting a rejoinder to Watts, but I accept your reassurance that you meant nothing personal in your response and I appreciate that. Peace!
 

the_brunx

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Naturally everyone hates a liar, good luck trying to stop humans from doing this.
Another way of stopping people from expressing their disapproval of you Rob is also just maybe to stop lying, Is that an option on the table?
 
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Robbo99999

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I’m sorry. After your post, I felt a bit misunderstood about my original intentions in posting a rejoinder to Watts, but I accept your reassurance that you meant nothing personal in your response and I appreciate that. Peace!
Nice, I'm glad you understand my approach now.
 

Phorize

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Naturally everyone hates a liar, good luck trying to stop humans from doing this.
Another way of stopping people from expressing their disapproval of you Rob is also just maybe to stop lying, Is that an option on the table?
He’s plainly wrong, and on a personal level as someone who is married to an audiologist I find his appropriation of a serious field nauseating. However, what evidence do you have that he knows he’s wrong, rather than is just susceptible to what he’d like to believe, or just misunderstanding fields that he’s not qualified in? Before I named someone as a liar in public I’d want to have taken a few steps to assure myself that I wasn’t telling myself a story that merely reinforced an existing belief, as we are all prone to doing.
 

the_brunx

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And if you look closely at the forums that brought up this pivot point of personal attacks, you will see it is the same ones which have been personally attacking Amir with the most sickening drivel a single man has ever been attacked with in the history of Hi-Fi forums, and it’s been going on for years. Hypocrites. And for what? Because he exposes bad products.
 
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voodooless

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He’s plainly wrong, and on a personal level as someone who is married to an audiologist I find his appropriation of a serious field nauseating. However, what evidence do you have that he knows he’s wrong, rather than is just susceptible to what he’d like to believe, or just misunderstanding fields that he’s not qualified in?
Are you still lying if you willfully ignore facts and willfully ignore certain tests to hold a position?
 

Lukino

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Even Rob's multiton teeth have to jump into the grooves as well as Topping, Gustard, etc. Among them there is only distortion that makes the sound different.....worse than Topping etc. The rest is just a sauce of lies to increase the selling price.. If the device is expensive, subjective reviewers jump on board.:facepalm:
 

Phorize

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Are you still lying if you willfully ignore facts and willfully ignore certain tests to hold a position?
In jurisprudence that would be seen as recklessness, which isn’t the same as intent. It certainly stinks, but as I said I don’t think we have the information needed to establish that Watts is setting out to deceive. There is a stunning array of mindsets that can lead to someone digging in on a position that is indefensible-and I’ve cited research here before that shows that people who hold false beliefs are inclined to dig in precisely because they are presented with contradictory factual evidence. That’s of no consequence though, as for reasons stated above I think Chord are sailing very close to the wind legally by even tolerating the misinformation that Watts propogates on forums etc. I just think criticising Watts in relation to products sold by Chord is a fools errand that the audio industry and their stooges in the hifi press are happy to see us undertake.
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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I have dozens of amps and DACs, and the XLR taps on the Chord TT2 are by far and away my favorite source to drive Meze Elites - it's no comparison to anything else for this headphone
Can I politely ask, why do you have dozens of amps and DACs?
I struggled to afford the one set of amplification and Qutest DAC.
 

the_brunx

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In jurisprudence that would be seen as recklessness, which isn’t the same as intent. It certainly stinks, but as I said I don’t think we have the information needed to establish that Watts is setting out to deceive. There is a stunning array of mindsets that can lead to someone digging in on a position that is indefensible-and I’ve cited research here before that shows that people who hold false beliefs are inclined to dig in precisely because they are presented with contradictory factual evidence. That’s of no consequence though, as for reasons stated above I think Chord are saying very close to the wind legally by even tolerating the misinformation that Watts propogates on forums etc. I just think criticising Watts in relation to products sold by Chord is a fools errand that the audio industry and their stooges in the hifi press are happy to see us undertake.
But in wisdom-prudence, A man asks himselfs how come he’s multiple upon multiple examples of “recklessness” always lands overwhelmingly to the same outcome of him positively marketing he’s very very lucrative products? and by this probability one can determine that this “recklessness” surely has to be premeditated to serve that purpose as a priority. And there lies a good argument of intent.
 
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TabCam

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To me it is confounding why people will accept an asking price for a product that is brand new, when invariably if they were considering a used one and took it to a repair shop first to get checked out, and the technician said “if I were you I’d pass on this one because for this price it shouldn’t have all this noise”, they would surely walk away. Why?
Isn't that one of the center points of the entire discussion! People say they feel robbed of their money bevause it isn't almost the best measuring device they can get their hands on.

With luxury goods it has always been both about performance and perception. If there are better performing and cheaper devices exists, humanity still chooses to differentiate themselves by making scientifically irrational choices. should we condemn humanity? I agree that showing the cheaper and better alternatives is a good endeavor.

Everybody who bought a Chord Hugo TT2 knew upfront that it wasn't a cheap device and, if you followed ASR, that there are far cheaper devices with similar or better performance according to ASR standards.

In hindsight it isn't a bad device, more than adequate performance with, as far as I can see, maybe a noise problem for very very sensitive IEMs. Have you hear the noise? I did not hear noise, even with speakers with 100 dB sensitivity, Maybe with IEMs with 110 dB/mW sensitivity (Sleek Audio SA6) although I doubt that spec and it is a TableTop dc so why listen to it with IEM?

Rob also never said he could hear to 300 dB, he said he tested it until he was sure he could hear no artifacts. You can say that is over exaggerating and over aggressive marketing but here they misquote it here at ASR time and time again.

I do not like the way Rob Watts posts on Head-Fi either. I did not look or post there for a very long time until you posted the link. It does not change the fact that terms like Charlatan, Ginmick etc. in my eyes does not reflect an adequately designed Devices and to me are personal.

The the same thing can about price can be said about the Mola Mola Tambiqui. Over-engineered and very very expensive. It is also not faultless looking at the THD+noise graph. There Amir says "Since I am not the one paying for it for you to purchase it, it is not my issue to worry about the cost. As such, I am happy to recommend the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC based on its measured performance and functionality.". That seems inconsistent to me.

If you are unhappy with the purchase, sell the TT2, but a far cheaper and technically better measuring device and you will probably have quite a sum in your pocket to boot.

At ASR I think we should better stick to facts and keep a less emotional discussion. In the long run that will serve the goal much better than polarizing communities although that is a big ask with (A)Social Media platforms where polarization is rife.
 

Phorize

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But in wisdom-prudence, A man asks himselfs how come he’s multiple upon multiple examples of “recklessness” always lands overwhelmingly to the same outcome of him positively marketing he’s very very lucrative products? and by this probability one can determine that this “recklessness” surely has to be premeditated for that purpose. And there is the intent.
The closest you get with that argument is that it may be dishonest, which is no further than me saying it may not be. The issue is though is that if we value criticism as a means of human embetterment we should aspire to live in a world where conversation between parties who strongly disagree is actually possible. That means we should work to a presumption of good faith that is rebuttable by strong evidence on bad intent. Your line of argument presumes bad intent, as it requires drawing very significant conclusions about the moral orientation of a person based on a narrow set of facts and without rigorous exploration of alternatives. Whether we like it if not, this is the price of moral high ground in a rational debate.
 

the_brunx

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The closest you get with that argument is that it may be dishonest, which is no further than me saying it may not be. The issue is though is that if we value criticism as a means of human embetterment we should aspire to live in a world where conversation between parties who strongly disagree is actually possible. That means we should work to a presumption of good faith that is rebuttable by strong evidence on bad intent. Your line of argument presumes bad intent, as it requires drawing very significant conclusions about the moral orientation of a person based on a narrow set of facts and without rigorous exploration of alternatives. Whether we like it if not, this is the price of moral high ground in a rational debate.
but to me your argument basically can be used in defending all other snake oil products and their designers to say we can not call them liars. Which I find hard to respect.
 

Phorize

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but to me your argument basically can be used in defending all other snake oil products and their designers to say we can not call them liars. Which I find hard to respect.
I’m not saying that we should be calling other purveyors of snake oil liars without sufficient evidence either. The burden on critical fallibilists is heavy, don’t hate the player, hate the game.
 

the_brunx

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I always call a falsehood a lie, and the person who spreads it a liar, especially if they have spread multiples. These games of first having to prove whether it was intentional or not I don’t play. To me a person who has once spread a falsehood should be the one to have the burden of proving that it was unintentional if it was so, of which I have open ears, but until then they are a liar. I’m out.
 
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Phorize

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I always call a falsehood a lie, and the person who spreads it a liar. These games of first having to prove whether it was intentional or not I don’t play. To me a person who has once spread a falsehood should be the one to have the burden of proving that it was unintentional if it was so. But until then they are a liar.
That’s a pretty capacious definition of the term ‘lie’. Have you fully considered the material consequences of actually adopting it in practice?

Edit: at this point we can acknowledge that you are explicitly adopting a presumption of dishonesty, and feel that this is a feature rather than a bug. There probably isn’t a reason to discuss this further.
 
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Ken Tajalli

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@moderator
Why not create a Rob Watts thread and move all the discussions there.
Surely, all these talks need not hold up an equipment review thread.
It seems that any Chord DAC review would eventually become about RW , his claims, his views etc.
Past good few pages here are exclusively about the man.
I am as guilty as anyone, but don't you think enough has already been said, at least in an equipment review.
 

Axo1989

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That is not "personal." It is a reflection of the business conduct related to this product. The claims are so extreme and so dubious that folks are expressing their frustration with the person so promoting them. Again, pay attention to how loud Rob's claims are about these DACs. And how dismissive he is of anyone disagreeing. You can't create a more perfect storm of criticism than this.

If you (hypothetically) describe someone as a charlatan it is personal, whether the observation is correct or not makes no difference. As I said, personal/not personal and correct/not correct are orthogonal.
 

Robbo99999

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@moderator
Why not create a Rob Watts thread and move all the discussions there.
Surely, all these talks need not hold up an equipment review thread.
It seems that any Chord DAC review would eventually become about RW , his claims, his views etc.
Past good few pages here are exclusively about the man.
I am as guilty as anyone, but don't you think enough has already been said, at least in an equipment review.
lol, a specific Rob Watts thread would be even more personal, even more childish, and even lower in moral standard as a reflection of us here on ASR. But you have a point, we have really talked about Rob Watts enough in this thread, but a Rob Watts thread is certainly not the answer. We need to forget about the man for now, his product is here to hold it's own in performance albeit at an absurd price.
 
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