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Chord Hugo M Scaler - Stereophile Review (measurements also)

Purité Audio

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My eyebrows raised, I kept reading. Referring to the figure reprinted here, the text states that "The Hugo M Scaler takes a rough stairstep CD quality waveform and transforms it into a smooth analog-like waveform. That quantum leap in sampling brings a breathtaking leap in detail, accuracy and realism to your music."

Cant really argue with that!
Keith
 

sergeauckland

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My eyebrows raised, I kept reading. Referring to the figure reprinted here, the text states that "The Hugo M Scaler takes a rough stairstep CD quality waveform and transforms it into a smooth analog-like waveform. That quantum leap in sampling brings a breathtaking leap in detail, accuracy and realism to your music."

Cant really argue with that!
Keith
Ah, the old 'stairstep' fallacy!
Oh, and a 'Quantum Leap' is the smallest possible change, (by one Quantum of energy) not a big one, so maybe 'quantum leap' is right.
 

Purité Audio

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If I see ‘staircase’ anywhere except in a Busby Berkeley musical...
But seriously as a competent designer wouldn’t a statement like that , presumably dreamt up by the marketing department vex?
Keith
 

Jimbob54

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Finally, someone else who realises this.

Clearly neither of you ever watched either Quantum Leap (which actually ran forever) or the shittest of the modern Bond films, Quantum of Solace, which merely felt like it did.
 

KSTR

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Ah, the old 'stairstep' fallacy!
Now if the customer has one of those true NOS DACs (or runs an AK449x-based DAC with filter set to NOS), the M-Scaler actually does improve the output from the "rough stairstep" to a nice sinc-filtered one (if that DAC acceepts the high sample rates, that is), haha!
Marketing is BS as usual but that's the inevitable ugly face of marketing to the masses.
 

ahofer

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. I have yet to see anyone who has heard it say that they did not hear a difference, including JA's review and some who have commented on this thread, and one would hope that they cannot all be wrong (although it remains a possibility, as is me winning the lottery - life is full of possibilities).

That’s the rub of our disagreement right there. The probability that it DOES make an audible difference in a controlled test is the one that is as small as the lottery. The probability that it doesn’t make a difference is closer to a certainty.
Sorry you were silenced, I guess we are boring everyone. For my own part, I like to get these things articulated better, and this idea-that we need to run out and try things because someone’s primed expectations were fulfilled-is an omnipresent audiofallacy, much like the “market success=proof of audible improvement” fallacy, on which I wrote at length here.
 

Sam Spade

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Double blind test? Serious? You understand that test is subjective, therefore doesn't belong on this forum.

Again, the mathematics back up the M-Scaler.

I like this forum, I learn a lot, and I'm a scientist. But double blind randomised trials are most certainly OBJECTIVE and scientific.

In contrast you can take all the measurements you want as accurate as possible, but if you can't explain what those measurements mean to the human experience, perception or emotional state, well they are just measurements without meaning.

It's like the issue of finding that an experiment is statistically significant at 0.05 without knowing the power of the test, the effect size and the probability of a type 2 error.
 

Mnyb

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Now if the customer has one of those true NOS DACs (or runs an AK449x-based DAC with filter set to NOS), the M-Scaler actually does improve the output from the "rough stairstep" to a nice sinc-filtered one (if that DAC acceepts the high sample rates, that is), haha!
Marketing is BS as usual but that's the inevitable ugly face of marketing to the masses.

That's the real twist , many of the owners of such NOS dac do roll their own filters and up sampling in software and of course the coveted NOS DAC has such a high "resolution" that you can hear the difference of the filters :D
 

icenine

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I am an owner. The BIGGEST difference I've listened to are CD's upsampled to max. Many sound stellar to me. SACD, DFF, DSD not so much but probably my total ownership of those is maybe 7% of all my music. To me much of the playback has more more and a bigger soundstage.
 

insoc

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Have any actual owner of the Qutest paired it with the M-Scaler? What do you think? Was the improvement noticeable? Best regards,
 

tanglewire

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Have any actual owner of the Qutest paired it with the M-Scaler? What do you think? Was the improvement noticeable? Best regards,

wrong forum dude.....double check the name of the site.... For audiofools you have many other options out there..
 
OP
Tks

Tks

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Rob Watts explaining his filter, need for 1M taps, etc. Make of it what you will.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-134#post-15968970

Wonderful brickwall, but utterly pointless since we have software that achieves basically the same thing if you wanted. Mansr could aptly explain this better than anyone else I know.

As for his claims about audibility and musical benefits - well, this is the guy who claims to be able to hear artifacts -300dB down, so.. I guess it's only benefits he could only ever hear exclusively. Seeing as how no one has been ever able to come remotely close to that level of hearing Rob claims he possess.
 

RustyGates

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Wonderful brickwall, but utterly pointless since we have software that achieves basically the same thing if you wanted. Mansr could aptly explain this better than anyone else I know.

As for his claims about audibility and musical benefits - well, this is the guy who claims to be able to hear artifacts -300dB down, so.. I guess it's only benefits he could only ever hear exclusively. Seeing as how no one has been ever able to come remotely close to that level of hearing Rob claims he possess.

Not sure when he said that. You might be getting mixed up with RW talking about his noise shaper or volume control performance. He acknowledges his DACs don't resolve anywhere near -300dB.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-57#post-14210453

All Chord DACs have the same filter / up-sampling algo built into it, its just not 1M order. But even in HQ player there is audible difference between filters, with the best being sinc-L.

There are not that many hardware based options out there for those who want this sort of performance but not have their sound system coupled to a beefy CUDA enabled PC with software running.
 

Music1969

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Not sure when he said that. You might be getting mixed up with RW talking about his noise shaper or volume control performance. He acknowledges his DACs don't resolve anywhere near -300dB.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-57#post-14210453

All Chord DACs have the same filter / up-sampling algo built into it, its just not 1M order. But even in HQ player there is audible difference between filters, with the best being sinc-L.

There are not that many hardware based options out there for those who want this sort of performance but not have their sound system coupled to a beefy CUDA enabled PC with software running.

You're back!

It's funny how the digital filtering thing gets so much attention with Rob Watts gear - I guess it helps with more sales, more income for him.

The thing that should get more attention is his analogue output performance using complete discreet design.

We know @JohnYang1997 can design state of the art Topping performance but can he do it without an 'off the shelf' D to A chip? Maybe but can he then put it out in the market and make a profit from it? Maybe, maybe not?

I definitely respect Rob for his D to A design and objective performance.

The digital domain and number of taps stuff is an annoying distraction to me but obviously some people are really into it. Each to his/her own of course.

And just so I stay more on topic , it is nearly 2022 and we still have no real objective proof that more taps with his DACs is audible.
 

mansr

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RustyGates

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130 dB stopband rejection is hardly wonderful. Many DAC chips do better than that. See also this post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-rme-adi-2-dac-fs-tap-count.22124/post-734918

Its not -130dB based on Robs own APx555 scope (green): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-134#post-15968970

The -130dB you see on the Stereophile graph is "Fig.2 Mark Levinson No.30.6, spectrum, 20kHz–30kHz, of 16-bit white noise sampled at 44.1kHz at –4dBFS (left channel blue, right cyan) and upsampled to 88.2kHz with M Scaler (left channel red, right magenta) (20dB/vertical div.). " Measured with a SYS2722.
 
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