Chord Hugo M Scaler - Stereophile Review (measurements also)

[mhardy6647]

This is hilarious. A device that does nothing for $5000. People spend money on this shit?

Seinfeld brand audio. It could catch on.

On the other hand, if DIY is an option, there's always something like this...

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/60s/63/Pop-1963-07.pdf

or its even higher-tech offspring...

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/60s/64/Pop-1964-01.pdf

Just in case any of y'all might think that innovation was a word and a concept that didn't exist prior to about 2005!

 

[BDWoody]

What math supports this piece of equipment?

Whatever is needed to run a cash register...

 

[Soniclife]

I'm not an engineer or mathematician, I'm simply curious as to how the M Scaler recovers information lost when the 44.1 digital file was created?

Watch this, it's enlightening.

 

[hellboundlex]

Hearing -300dB down as he claims, must help with confirming this process surely.

It's all in accordance with the sampling theorem, whomever you wish to attribute it to, popular choices being Shannon, Nyquist, Whittaker, or some combination thereof. What Mr Watts isn't telling you is that the difference between almost perfect and really, really close to perfect is inaudible.

It's "in accordance with" the theorem in the same way that multiplying both sides of a seventh grade algebra problem by the number of days until your birthday has no effect (unless it is your birthday).

 

[Human Bass]

The whole "philosophy" of Chord products seem to rely on ignoring the concept of diminshing returns. We need zillions taps to hear - 500db.

Also there is the premise that the speakers have no limitations and are able to reproduce such nano differences.

 

[hellboundlex]

The whole "philosophy" of Chord products seem to rely on ignoring the concept of diminshing returns. We need zillions taps to hear - 500db.

At least they work. At least most chord products measure well. This product is particularly humourous, as the first couple of pages of this thread show that everything it does can be done with cheap or free software. In one sense, luxury spending for the sake of luxury spending offends me for ethical reasons. On the other hand, at least chord products objectively do what they say they do. They don't make me nearly as mad as PS Audio or the other high end DACs that can't beat a $9 dongle.

I struggle with my own desire for luxury and my humanism. I never forget that the $500 I spend on cannabis, wine, or audio equipment is money that I could have sent to doctors without borders, so it better be worth it.

 

[Human Bass]

At least they work. At least most chord products measure well. This product is particularly humourous, as the first couple of pages of this thread show that everything it does can be done with cheap or free software. In one sense, luxury spending for the sake of luxury spending offends me for ethical reasons. On the other hand, at least chord products objectively do what they say they do. They don't make me nearly as mad as PS Audio or the other high end DACs that can't beat a $9 dongle.

I struggle with my own desire for luxury and my humanism. I never forget that the $500 I spend on cannabis, wine, or audio equipment is money that I could have sent to doctors without borders, so it better be worth it.

I also like that Chord has no BS "euphonic distortion". Their focus on ultra clean audio is commendable, even if they end up falling into a rabbit hole. I consider the Hugo TT 2 a nice end-game for a dac-amp combo whose price is not totally absurd.

I feel like that Rob Watt dreams of making a deal with TSMC to design a 32 cores 4.5ghz audio processor in 5nm.

 

[hellboundlex]

I also like that Chord has no BS "euphonic distortion". Their focus on ultra clean audio is commendable, even if they end up falling into a rabbit hole. I consider the Hugo TT 2 a nice end-game for a dac-amp combo whose price is not totally absurd.

I feel like that Rob Watt dreams of making a deal with TSMC to design a 32 cores 4.5ghz audio processor in 5nm.

Does chord have DSP products? Because that is where the kind of work they do would actually, you know, be audible by anyone but a 15 year old piano prodigy with perfect pitch.

 

[RichB]

Oh that's simple.. Entertainment.

Though I agree, the build quality and things of that nature are a good reason to buy things you like. The only problem is, I can look over the pond, and look at any of Matrix-Audio's products, and get the same thing, just with more utility, and less audiphool nonsense to support.

Matrix support MQA so, they have not escaped all..

- Rich

 

[majingotan]

Matrix support MQA so, they have not escaped all..

- Rich

Many audiophiles are willing to spend on MQA tracks. Makes perfect sense to include the MQA decoder to its features

 

[hellboundlex]

So, the dog whistle at the end of Sgt. Peppers just caused my daughter physical pain. I couldn't hear it. The dog whistle is well below the frequencies were this fancy device cleans up the sound.

 

[Tks]

Matrix support MQA so, they have not escaped all..

- Rich

Topping does now as well as SMSL. Though if you ask people responsible for their best products (like John who designed the A90) it's obvious the decision doesn't come from the engineers to include that stuff. Mostly a marketers checklist that is used to attract eyes on a product that might otherwise be missing out on a potential segment (especially if that product is targeting price points close to, or over a thousand dollars).

Its why in my post I said "less audiophool nonsense" rather than all.

As for Matrix, they've been having headaches according to posts concerning weird anomalies with the MQA variant. The sorts of problems you have and wish you never bothered with such nonsense in the first place.

 

[RichB]

Topping does now as well as SMSL. Though if you ask people responsible for their best products (like John who designed the A90) it's obvious the decision doesn't come from the engineers to include that stuff. Mostly a marketers checklist that is used to attract eyes on a product that might otherwise be missing out on a potential segment (especially if that product is targeting price points close to, or over a thousand dollars).

Its why in my post I said "less audiophool nonsense" rather than all.

As for Matrix, they've been having headaches according to posts concerning weird anomalies with the MQA variant. The sorts of problems you have and wish you never bothered with such nonsense in the first place.

I agree. Oppo added MQA as well.
I get the sense that MQA licensing costs may be reduced as that star is setting
There may be an increased MQA products as interest wanes.

- Rich

 

[DSJR]

Dog whistle on Sgt Peppers? I can hear the mod noise still.............

Some months back, I attended a Chord open evening using a full Chord streaming system, top amps and Dynaudio Confidence 60 speakers. Having negative vibes on the 'sound' of their demo systems after many hideous UK audio show experiences (I suspect it was the Wilson Benesch speakers used looking back), I have to say I was impressed with the current stuff (high prices excluded). The M-Scaler was demonstrated with 'interesting' results.

Sorry for the subjective crap which follows, but I come at demming gear and personal musical enjoyment from the old Linn 'tune dem' aspect of perception. I like to sing along (badly) to songs, follow melody lines, harmonies in the backing instruments and the subtle timbral changes as notes decay - and so on - and I do now appreciate that subtle compression as per vinyl reproduction can magnify this over master grade recordings and 'real life' which is rarely so 'charming to the ear.'

Listening to a before and after M-Scaler dem (the rep pushed one central? button on the M-Scaler to bring it into circuit), I immediately felt I could perceive a 'difference.' the sound was more (Linn LP12-esque) 'musical' and '3-D, BUT, I felt the mean volume level could have been slightly different. the rep was in charge of the remote control but of course he wouldn't have been manipulating it, would he? I've subsequently read that this device does alter the output level when processing, so any straight A-B comparisons are pointless without this being taken into account especially for me as I confused myself (as predicted by experienced peers) in recent years trying to do an A-B, the 'results' skewed by one being very slightly louder or quieter than the other, the results reversing if I got one or the other louder.

Sorry for the subjective crap above. I had to button my lip when Rob W was giving his presentation, skilfully mixing real objective stuff I could identify with, and audiophool twaddle (that I can't any more) in my opinion. Good marketing though and they're seemingly doing well as a company?

 

[Deleted member 9286]

Dog whistle on Sgt Peppers? I can hear the mod noise still.............

Some months back, I attended a Chord open evening using a full Chord streaming system, top amps and Dynaudio Confidence 60 speakers. Having negative vibes on the 'sound' of their demo systems after many hideous UK audio show experiences (I suspect it was the Wilson Benesch speakers used looking back), I have to say I was impressed with the current stuff (high prices excluded). The M-Scaler was demonstrated with 'interesting' results.

Sorry for the subjective crap which follows, but I come at demming gear and personal musical enjoyment from the old Linn 'tune dem' aspect of perception. I like to sing along (badly) to songs, follow melody lines, harmonies in the backing instruments and the subtle timbral changes as notes decay - and so on - and I do now appreciate that subtle compression as per vinyl reproduction can magnify this over master grade recordings and 'real life' which is rarely so 'charming to the ear.'

Listening to a before and after M-Scaler dem (the rep pushed one central? button on the M-Scaler to bring it into circuit), I immediately felt I could perceive a 'difference.' the sound was more (Linn LP12-esque) 'musical' and '3-D, BUT, I felt the mean volume level could have been slightly different. the rep was in charge of the remote control but of course he wouldn't have been manipulating it, would he? I've subsequently read that this device does alter the output level when processing, so any straight A-B comparisons are pointless without this being taken into account especially for me as I confused myself (as predicted by experienced peers) in recent years trying to do an A-B, the 'results' skewed by one being very slightly louder or quieter than the other, the results reversing if I got one or the other louder.

Sorry for the subjective crap above. I had to button my lip when Rob W was giving his presentation, skilfully mixing real objective stuff I could identify with, and audiophool twaddle (that I can't any more) in my opinion. Good marketing though and they're seemingly doing well as a company?

The M Scaler alters the volume between modes precisely to accommodate A/B comparisons. I can’t remember the reason but when running at 1 million taps, it is 6dB quieter. When pass-through is enabled it lowers the volume by 6dB so you can compare without any volume changes. At least, that’s the theory.

 

[majingotan]

Listening to a before and after M-Scaler dem (the rep pushed one central? button on the M-Scaler to bring it into circuit), I immediately felt I could perceive a 'difference.' the sound was more (Linn LP12-esque) 'musical' and '3-D, BUT, I felt the mean volume level could have been slightly different. the rep was in charge of the remote control but of course he wouldn't have been manipulating it, would he?

Could it be that you're under some confirmation bias based on the words and actions that the rep is describing? Per my post in this thread, there is no rep or salesman that is accompanying me during my demo, and that I can do whatever I wanted with the setup. Therefore, I was in complete control of removing my bias, not having uncontrolled time when I want to flip the switch from bypass, to mid (176.4 or 192 KHz) to full upsampling (705.6 or 768 KHz). Through Dan Clark Voce and STAX SR-009 headphones, there were absolutely no changes in the sound that I hear. I couldn't even tell if that thing is actually upsampling or just changing Chord DAVE's sample rate display

 

[mansr]

The M Scaler alters the volume between modes precisely to accommodate A/B comparisons. I can’t remember the reason but when running at 1 million taps, it is 6dB quieter. When pass-through is enabled it lowers the volume by 6dB so you can compare without any volume changes. At least, that’s the theory.

When upsampling it's good practice add a few dB of headroom for inter-sample peaks in the source material.

 

[DSJR]

Could it be that you're under some confirmation bias based on the words and actions that the rep is describing? Per my post in this thread, there is no rep or salesman that is accompanying me during my demo, and that I can do whatever I wanted with the setup. Therefore, I was in complete control of removing my bias, not having uncontrolled time when I want to flip the switch from bypass, to mid (176.4 or 192 KHz) to full upsampling (705.6 or 768 KHz). Through Dan Clark Voce and STAX SR-009 headphones, there were absolutely no changes in the sound that I hear. I couldn't even tell if that thing is actually upsampling or just changing Chord DAVE's sample rate display

All I can say is that I had no *obvious* bias in favour - the silly-high price tags put paid to that - but realistically I suppose I was expecting to hear something... The difference at that moment in time was akin to comparing a cheaper Rega turntable to a 'better' deck like the countless Linn LP12-Rega dems I did in my past life. Without any means of actually checking mean-volume, let alone control the remote used, I'm left in a quandary really, as it was totally out of my control.


I also kind of take issue over a very early comment that 'we' can't afford such a device so will slag it off as a result. Many times in my audio-life I've heard audio gear that sets the pulse racing, where the sound and visuals come together beautifully and which I'll never now be able to contemplate affording. Doesn't mean I go all sour grapes (bah humbug) over it, Chord's top amps included, as it's obvious looking at them as to where a large chunk of your money has gone! Same with some awesome oil-rig types of lavish turntables which must cost an absolute fortune to manufacture and finish (I'm thinking Kronos in the first instance, with contra-rotating platters and which apparently 'work' very well sonically).

Sorry I can't offer anything objective here...

 

[Deleted member 9286]

I also kind of take issue over a very early comment that 'we' can't afford such a device so will slag it off as a result. Many times in my audio-life I've heard audio gear that sets the pulse racing, where the sound and visuals come together beautifully and which I'll never now be able to contemplate affording. Doesn't mean I go all sour grapes (bah humbug) over it, Chord's top amps included, as it's obvious looking at them as to where a large chunk of your money has gone! Same with some awesome oil-rig types of lavish turntables which must cost an absolute fortune to manufacture and finish (I'm thinking Kronos in the first instance, with contra-rotating platters and which apparently 'work' very well sonically).

Sorry I can't offer anything objective here...

I am in agreement with you here, the M Scaler seems to generate a very bitter reaction in some people. Yet a Mola Mola DAC for example, priced around 7k if memory serves, does not. I’m sure the Mola Mola is a fine piece of engineering, but it’s no different to the M Scaler in this regard. They are both overkill (and I own an M Scaler).

Total snake oil products, absolutely deserve the wrath they receive but as some people here who understand the maths properly have already stated, the M Scaler does do what it says it does. Whether we can hear it is another matter entirely.

 

[mansr]

I am in agreement with you here, the M Scaler seems to generate a very bitter reaction in some people. Yet a Mola Mola DAC for example, priced around 7k if memory serves, does not. I’m sure the Mola Mola is a fine piece of engineering, but it’s no different to the M Scaler in this regard. They are both overkill (and I own an M Scaler).

They are both ridiculous products despite doing exactly what they say they do. The reason is that the same thing can be done for a tiny fraction of the cost. The casework alone isn't enough to justify the price of either, even you think they're pretty.