Chord Huei Phono Preamp Review

[solderdude]

At what level of SINAD and SNR we can assume that the equipment is broken or will provide an Audi able detrimental effect?

There is no single number, despite you wanting to know this. It depends on too many factors.
Car analogies are lame and flawed on all aspects.

You are happy with the mentioned pre-amp so these numbers obviously are 'good enough' for you.
JND is not the same for everyone and each situation.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

What is the bad zone for not washing your hands? Assume measurement of what is on your hands.

Sure, that would be a good method. So at what point hands are considered dirty? At what point noise from a preamplifier becomes a problem? Let’s say the SINAD from preamp A is 90 and from preamp B is 80. In absolute terms preamp A is better to B. But both address the issue of noise and eliminate perceived noise levels? Does a designer spend time, resources and money to move the design from 80 to 90? At what point is good enough as a solution to a specific problem?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

There is no single number, despite you wanting to know this. It depends on too many factors.
Car analogies are lame and flawed on all aspects.

Do you have a better analogy? If there is no single number then how we can say that the item is bad and should be recalled? I can understand that you can say that A is better to B in absolute terms but if you say that is broken then certainly you should know the level is considered broken. No?

 

[solderdude]

You need to read the entire conclusion, it is not based on S/N ratio only (my emphasis):

Conclusions
It is hard to imagine a phono stage being broken in so many aspects then the Chord Huei. Almost unusable interface. Huge amount of noise and fair bit of distortion. RIAA equalization that is not accurate, nor spec compliant. And Rumble filter that does nothing. The only thing it has going for it is that it is pretty!

Can't imagine a company like Chord producing something like this (other than the UI). They are known for needlessly overengineered DACs but otherwise performance is excellent. Not so here.

Needless to say, I can't recommend the Chord Huei in any form or fashion. In my opinion it should be pulled from the market and redesigned.

In Amir's opinion it should be pulled from the market and redesigned. That may not be someone else's opinion.
The product on a technical level does not 'fit' in the otherwise excellent performing Chord equipment range of products.
There were many reasons for Amir to make that statement not S/N ratio only.

Do you have a better analogy?

No analogy is needed.

 

[amirm]

Sure, that would be a good method. So at what point hands are considered dirty?

So what is you answer? If you don't know do you stop washing your hands?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

So what is you answer? If you don't know do you stop washing your hands?

I don’t have answers. Only questions. You have provided a range of very useful information through your measurements. I can see a table with SINAD and SNR comparisons. At what level of SINAD and SNT is objectively and subjectively becomes a problem? Surely you should have an answer on that considering that your conclusion is that the item is so bad and possibly broken that should be recalled.

 

[amirm]

I don’t have answers. Only questions

Yes you do. How often do you wash your hands and why?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

.
There were many reasons for Amir to make that statement not S/N ratio only.
.

what were the reasons for the product to be considered broken? Also you said that Amir’s conclusion for the equipment to be recalled is based on the measurements. Opinions in science are useless unless you can prove your opinion. Am I right on that?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

Yes you do. How often do you wash your hands and why?

That will depend if I do a blue or white collar job. For blue collar job I will wash my hands before going to the toilet and after. For white collar job just after but I can’t prove or support in any way shape or form that this is the best practice and or the most efficient way to clean my hands. As a results I can’t challenge your method and periodicity for washing your hands

 

[amirm]

That will depend if I do a blue or white collar job. For blue collar job I will wash my hands before going to the toilet and after. For white collar job just after but I can’t prove or support in any way shape or form that this is the best practice and or the most efficient way to clean my hands. As a results I can’t challenge your method and periodicity for washing your hands

How do you know you are not over washing your hands?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

How do you know you are not over washing your hands?

I don’t and I never claimed that I know

 

[BDWoody]

Opinions in science are useless unless you can prove your opinion. Am I right on that?

It's an informed opinion. It isn't presented as absolute. It's based on a lot of understanding. I know you enjoy the interaction/discussion but it seems, still, as though you want easy answers given when easy answers aren't going to help with the understanding part.

More reading will help.

Just sayin'...

 

[Deleted member 31750]

It's an informed opinion. It isn't presented as absolute. It's based on a lot of understanding. I know you enjoy the interaction/discussion but it seems, still, as though you want easy answers given when easy answers aren't going to help with the understanding part.

More reading will help.

Just sayin'...

A great scientist said once that if you can’t explain it simply maybe you don’t understand it well. Do you agree with that statement by Albert Einstein?

 

[BDWoody]

A great scientist said once that if you can’t explain it simply maybe you don’t understand it well. Do you agree with that statement by Albert Einstein?

I think you really enjoy debate, but learning more will help you understand what you are debating. Not everything has a simple, easy answer.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

I think you really enjoy debate, but learning more will help you understand what you are debating. Not everything has a simple, easy answer.

Hmmm. If Einstein was able to explain simply general relativity maybe anyone can if you know your subject well enough. I do enjoy debate because is a great way to make me think and consider perspectives once I thought impossible. Also a great way to challenge my own views and what I consider that “I know”. If there is no simple explanation is that due to the subject or our limited understanding to explain it?

 

[BDWoody]

If Einstein was able to explain simply the his science maybe anyone can.

You got a simple explanation for general relativity?

Good luck with that.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

You got a simple explanation for general relativity?

Good luck with that.

I don’t but Einstein did and I could understand what it is about. The explanation that space and time are connected. His explanation is for a child to understand and is used in primary schools to explain what space time is.my question was frankly very simple. At what level SINAD and SNR become a problem?

 

[BDWoody]

I don’t but Einstein did and I could understand what it is about. The explanation that space and time are connected. His explanation is for a child to understand and is used in primary schools to explain what space time is.my question was frankly very simple. At what level SINAD and SNR become a problem?

So, the child then truly understood general relativity?

We can explain things to you, but we can't understand it for you.

I think you're more about the debate than trying to understand.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

I think you're more about the debate than trying to understand.

what makes you think that? Let me make it more clear. I am sure designers measure their equipment. It seems that you understand the measurements but unable to explain your understanding. Do you know at what point a designer should consider SINAD and SNR levels as problematic and has to do something about it? If you can say 44 SINAD is bad certainly you must know the limit between good-average and bad. Otherwise 44 is not bad but just not as good as 90?

 

[solderdude]

At what level SINAD and SNR become a problem?

That depends on the circumstances, listening level, recording, used transducers its 'surroundings', the experience of the listener.
Again there is no 'single' number here.

Many have tried to explain this to you in many different ways over the last 160 posts.

A SINAD of 50 dominated by noise is not the same as a SINAD dominated by distortion. A SINAD with distortion products only being 2nd harm can be less 'detrimental' than if it were 3rd, 4th or 5th dominated.

SINAD only says something about the total 'error signal' S/N ratio + all generated harmonics opposite a specific 1kHz stimulus. It is just one measurement 'number' from a set reference point.
A SINAD of 50 may well sound great yet a SINAD of 70 may sound poor. It all depends on what the 'error' is made of and the circumstances.
Harmonics and noise spectrum are also important which you cannot see from a 'number'. You need the plots, understand the levels and know what all the plots tell you.

You see... there is no single 'number' catching all aspects. You demand to be told a number but you ain't gettin' it because there is none in this particular case.
You demand to know why Amir mentioned it was 'broken'. That may not be your opinion but Amir does not have to retract his opinion based on his measurements and experience just because an owner is happy.
Amir stated WHY he came to his conclusion. What's the mystery ? What's with the fixation of SINAD ? What's up with demanding a single number just as if that single number would mean the difference between good and bad. That's not how this works.