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Chord GroundARAY Review (Noise Filter?)

Rate this audio product:

  • 1. Waste of money (piggy bank panther)

    Votes: 274 96.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 6 2.1%

  • Total voters
    283

AudioSceptic

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Oh there were, it's just that they came from the US mostly. I remember the Threshold Stasis amps around 1980 which drove 'briks to high power levels, the DC300A having gone back to pro use by this time. What about the Ampzilla, Dunlap Clarke and early Brystons - we had all of those before our gaze became more attuned to Salisbury (the bolt-up NAP250 was very sweet toned and nothing like the aggressive and harder toned CB cased version - all measurable I believe as the distortions weren't that low in level compared to today).

My GAWD we were brainwashed and sold aspirational expensive stereo's based around a then, highly flawed vinyl source which warmed up and balanced out the speaker-screamers we liked with that source. Someone I knew called these systems 'domesticated PA systems' and in the 80's he was right (digital sounded horrid with these systems I remember - and it wasn't the CD players!).

Krell introduced the KSA50 and 100 to the UK and although these weren't right either, they started a trend which Linn finished when they introduced their amp system, which was as flawed as a Naim but in the opposite direction (band limited again but safer tone which was far better on strings for example)
You were in the trade so will know far more than I, but didn't the whole "US Super Amp" thing take off over here in the UK when Ricardo Franassovici started up Absolute Sounds as importers/distributers? We'd heard about a lot of the US "High End" but it suddenly started being reviewed in Hi-Fi News, and being sold by specialists usually outside the Linn-Naim cabal/cartel. IIRC this was around 1983-4.
 

theREALdotnet

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The most difficult part of posting to ASR is knowing whether or not you should. I just poured red wine into my cognac glass, so take the below for what it’s worth…

I am actually pretty serious about that.

You’re certainly passionate, but your line of argumentation is not coherent and lacks logic.

Amir and this site implies a "scientific" approach. It's not. What's being offered are basic measurements.

This has been brought up before, and the general consensus is that yes, the “S” is ASR is a bit of a reach. There is no science being conducted here. Science is the search for knowledge about the natural world (sorry to all of you in the Humanities). What ASR is doing is much more on the engineering test & verification and also the consumer advocacy side. Basically, the ASR reviews try to turn stones and watch the cockroaches shooting out.

Empirical evidence gets neglected. As well as e.g. Audio Precision statements about its equipment limitations.
And as mentioned, there are procedural flaws.

No, testing is entirely empirical. I think you are confusing “anecdotal” with “empirical”. But yes, testing procedures are always flawed is some way, and if readers are concerned that those flaws affect the test outcome they are welcome to critique (not dismiss) the procedures or, better yet, put up their own test procedures and findings.

Since years Amir generates measurements of audio devices, DACs in particular, showing flaws beyond
audible thresholds. If you'd follow Amirs (and his followers) logic: "all DuTs therefore sound the same",

I think you mean, they say not all DUTs but all DUTs with inaudible flaws sound the same. This is a tautology. There were DUTs with audible flaws and they did not sound the same. Also a tautology.

it would basically imply there'd be no reason for having this forum at all anymore.

This does not follow at all. The reason this forum exists is that there are unscrupulous charlatans luring wide-eyed and cashed-up buyers into spending their money on junk.

The devices do not sound the same.

Not all devices sound the same. Not all devices measure the same. But they sound the same long before they measure the same. The only caveat being, do we always have good idea what to measure (not: can we measure it).

People keep buying new stuff.

Another non sequitur. Just because people buy stuff doesn’t mean the stuff has any objective merit or usefulness.

All I am saying. You better be careful not to drift into an ideological direction.

That’s right, be guided by facts, not hear-say.

If ten different people say there are, they hear, differences, as a scientist, you'd ask why is that!?!?

Again, be guided by facts, not hear-say. It’s always worthwhile to ask questions, but this seems like a rhetorical one. The actual answer to this question will probably surprise you and is not going to reassert the notion you held when you asked.

Even if one out of hundred says he experienced a difference it shouldn't be neglected. That's what science is all about.

Science is not about chasing and nurturing anecdotes. It is about collecting dependable evidence and using that to falsify hypotheses.

Otherwise we'd still living in caves.

We’re not living in caves anymore because we have learned to go by the evidence where it matters, or else be doomed.
 

JeffS7444

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Can some network fellow explain to me how this device is working, in theory and assuming it does what it says. I'm trying to wrap my head around it and I am in the dark. Theoretically, the data/signal/information (whatever the right term is) would enter this device that is attached to an ethernet port. It would go through some (passive?) filtering, reducing noise (lets assume that happens), and then what? Go back into the network (I'll bet there is no close circuit inside the device, thus doing nothing at all), how will these data reach the target (dac or whatever)? Please elaborate.
Former IT guy here: At my previous employer, we made extensive use of far pricier ethernet filters for the most critical network segments, and noted a dramatic reduction in ping times, and were astounded to find that we were reliably achieving gigabit throughput even through legacy 10BaseT switches and Cat 3 cabling, and were able to realize thousands of dollars in cost savings by not having to upgrade the network "backbone" to fiber optic. But what we were really not prepared for was the improvement in audio and video! Sparkling 4K HDR resolution with much enhanced sense of 3D and clarity even via existing 720p sets. Uh, okay not really, I have no idea what that gadget is supposed to be doing.
 

AudioSceptic

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These days on ASR, Rob Watts gets mentioned (attacked?) on any thread, related or not!
Imagine if he designed poweramps that didn't live up to claimed power out levels - you guys would even have a bigger field-day !:facepalm: :)
He is more famous here on ASR than Amir himself - would you guys ever let go ??
I agree. He might make extreme claims, but he's a saint compared with many of the shysters out there. Let's reserve our lambasting for them!
 

Ken Tajalli

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Former IT guy here: At my previous employer, we made extensive use of far pricier ethernet filters for the most critical network segments, and noted a dramatic reduction in ping times, and were astounded to find that we were reliably achieving gigabit throughput even through legacy 10BaseT switches and Cat 3 cabling, and were able to realize thousands of dollars in cost savings by not having to upgrade the network "backbone" to fiber optic. But what we were really not prepared for was the improvement in audio and video! Sparkling 4K HDR resolution with much enhanced sense of 3D and clarity even via existing 720p sets. Uh, okay not really, I have no idea what that gadget is supposed to be doing.
You had me for a moment . . .
 

Nango

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Only way I
This is a listening test, comparison and measurements of the Chord GroundARAY "noise reduction" device. I think it comes in a pack and costs US $795 for the set. Member kindly sent me the Ethernet one:
View attachment 222398
This is the picture of the full set:

chordco-GA-7-row-with-AEX-award-1080px.jpg


You are supposed to plug in the unit into the unused ports on your gear. And the more, the better.

NOTE: this is from CHORD Company, NOT Chord Electronics which makes the various DACs I have tested.

Chord GroundArray Listening Tests

My standard workstation where I perform my testing is naturally connected to our home network where a lot of the data files come and go during the testing over a TP Link switch. It has 8 ports with a few unused ones so I plugged the GroundArray into one of them. Inserting the device is easy. Getting it out is not because the tab is then hidden enough that you can't push to unlock it. I had to use a screw driver to push the lock in to remove it.

I played my reference tracks using RME ADI-2 Pro as I inserted and then removed the GroundARAY. There was no difference whatsoever to my ears. To avoid the accusation that I don't want to hear a difference, I then performed a null test using member @pkane's DeltaWave program. Here, RME ADI-Pro is capturing its own output for analysis. I made two captures: one with and one without GroundARAY. Here is the spectrum of null (difference) result:

View attachment 222400

And here is the file itself if you want to listen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkm7zx4lz3zi6xy/Missing Film Chord GroundAray Difference File.wav?dl=0

Even with my sensitive IEMs and pushing the RME headphone output to absolute max, all I hear is silence.

Chord GroundARAY Measurements
I happened to still have the Chord DAVE DAC on hand so I used it for measurements (different companies -- same name). The configuration is the same as listening tests with the TP-Link switch being used to capture and save measurement files (and music I listen to while testing). Here is the CHORD DAVE dashboard measurement as is with output calibrated to 4 volts:
View attachment 222401

Per my DAC review note, one channel is less stable so I had to take care and graph that screen shot while it was on its best behavior. I then plugged in the GroundARAY to TP-Link switch. Here is the difference or lack thereof:
View attachment 222403

Nothing is out of placed or changed a hair for the entire audible band and then some (22.4 kHz bandwidth). SINAD is dominated by noise so if noise had gone down, it would improve but it did not. Let's measure dynamic range directly to assure ourselves of that:
View attachment 222404

Other than tiny run to run variation, there is no difference whatsoever.

For people complaining that we only use a single 1 kHz tone for measurements, here is our 32 tone test running at 192 kHz sampling (so very wide bandwidth):
View attachment 222405

The two sets of measurements land right on top of each other with no difference at all.

We could run a lot more tests but results will be the same.

Conclusions
Even if the Ethernet GroundAray performed some kind of noise filtering, in which case company should so show that, the concept of it making a difference to a DAC output connected to said computer is incredibly far fetched. The PC is already much noisier than the Ethernet link yet we get superb sound out of it because DACs are designed to be immune to such noise. Furthermore, an Ethernet switch has independent ports. Filtering one is not going to do anything to the port next to it.

Audiophiles though with faulty testing methodology put aside all of that and say, "but I heard it." As I always say, I can put dirt in a box with a wire and you connect it to your audio system and you would report improvements. Indeed, such "grounding" devices exist and I have tested one that costs thousands of dollars! In this review, I have done my own listening tests with negative results. And used computer matching to show that there is no difference in the waveform to beyond the accuracy of the original audio files.

There is no way I can recommend the CHORD company GroundAray.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Only way I see for Chord ever again having good products and nice reviews is a take over by Topping.
 

Orion76

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This thing reminds me of the AudioQuest JitterBug, only turned up to 11. $700 vs $70.
 

fpitas

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AudioSceptic

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This is a listening test, comparison and measurements of the Chord GroundARAY "noise reduction" device. I think it comes in a pack and costs US $795 for the set. Member kindly sent me the Ethernet one:
View attachment 222398
This is the picture of the full set:

chordco-GA-7-row-with-AEX-award-1080px.jpg


You are supposed to plug in the unit into the unused ports on your gear. And the more, the better.

NOTE: this is from CHORD Company, NOT Chord Electronics which makes the various DACs I have tested.

Chord GroundArray Listening Tests

My standard workstation where I perform my testing is naturally connected to our home network where a lot of the data files come and go during the testing over a TP Link switch. It has 8 ports with a few unused ones so I plugged the GroundArray into one of them. Inserting the device is easy. Getting it out is not because the tab is then hidden enough that you can't push to unlock it. I had to use a screw driver to push the lock in to remove it.

I played my reference tracks using RME ADI-2 Pro as I inserted and then removed the GroundARAY. There was no difference whatsoever to my ears. To avoid the accusation that I don't want to hear a difference, I then performed a null test using member @pkane's DeltaWave program. Here, RME ADI-Pro is capturing its own output for analysis. I made two captures: one with and one without GroundARAY. Here is the spectrum of null (difference) result:

View attachment 222400

And here is the file itself if you want to listen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkm7zx4lz3zi6xy/Missing Film Chord GroundAray Difference File.wav?dl=0

Even with my sensitive IEMs and pushing the RME headphone output to absolute max, all I hear is silence.

Chord GroundARAY Measurements
I happened to still have the Chord DAVE DAC on hand so I used it for measurements (different companies -- same name). The configuration is the same as listening tests with the TP-Link switch being used to capture and save measurement files (and music I listen to while testing). Here is the CHORD DAVE dashboard measurement as is with output calibrated to 4 volts:
View attachment 222401

Per my DAC review note, one channel is less stable so I had to take care and graph that screen shot while it was on its best behavior. I then plugged in the GroundARAY to TP-Link switch. Here is the difference or lack thereof:
View attachment 222403

Nothing is out of placed or changed a hair for the entire audible band and then some (22.4 kHz bandwidth). SINAD is dominated by noise so if noise had gone down, it would improve but it did not. Let's measure dynamic range directly to assure ourselves of that:
View attachment 222404

Other than tiny run to run variation, there is no difference whatsoever.

For people complaining that we only use a single 1 kHz tone for measurements, here is our 32 tone test running at 192 kHz sampling (so very wide bandwidth):
View attachment 222405

The two sets of measurements land right on top of each other with no difference at all.

We could run a lot more tests but results will be the same.

Conclusions
Even if the Ethernet GroundAray performed some kind of noise filtering, in which case company should so show that, the concept of it making a difference to a DAC output connected to said computer is incredibly far fetched. The PC is already much noisier than the Ethernet link yet we get superb sound out of it because DACs are designed to be immune to such noise. Furthermore, an Ethernet switch has independent ports. Filtering one is not going to do anything to the port next to it.

Audiophiles though with faulty testing methodology put aside all of that and say, "but I heard it." As I always say, I can put dirt in a box with a wire and you connect it to your audio system and you would report improvements. Indeed, such "grounding" devices exist and I have tested one that costs thousands of dollars! In this review, I have done my own listening tests with negative results. And used computer matching to show that there is no difference in the waveform to beyond the accuracy of the original audio files.

There is no way I can recommend the CHORD company GroundAray.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
If you think things couldn't be any worse, I've just found that these are priced at £550 each <https://www.futureshop.co.uk/chord-groundaray>, so the $795 would also be each!!!
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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Nothing, it is just a piece of wire as I understand it, shorting unused inputs.
No, it doesn't short anything. It is a single connection from your equipment ground to so some material.
 

Ken Tajalli

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No, it doesn't short anything. It is a single connection from your equipment ground to so some material.
I know, someone already told me, at first I thought he was kidding me.
It turns out Chord Company is kidding us all.
Got to hand it to them, if they can sell it, they deserve every penny . . .
 

sarumbear

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Clear example: my wife’s ever growing shoe and handbag collection :facepalm:
You certainly do not understand the female psyche. There is a very clear objective reason: it shows their status among other females. :cool:
 

respice finem

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You certainly do not understand the female psyche. There is a very clear objective reason: it shows their status among other females. :cool:
"my heels are higher than yours" :cool: Like the male "my youknowwhat is bigger than..."
Sometimes it's just that simple.
 
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