Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[Trell]

When you put the price in the equation it’s difficult to argue. However, it’s difficult argue the value of the price in so many ways to start with that having to replace the caps in 5-6yrs is neither here nor there.

We can see that the manufacturer quasi admits the issue by replacing them free of charge.

BTW, what do you expect a consumer audio devices life time to be?

All manufacturers, in whatever industry, have devices that fails for various reasons and not necessarily their fault at all. Failures will occur with some devices, though, so here service and support is of course very important: The more expensive the device the more this becomes important, at least to me.

That said, there are also design errors (which can be very hard or impossible to fix) and this Chord DAC appears to have at least one due to lack of proper heat management (poor cooling). This is a newbie error.

As for how long an audio product should last, even consumer ones? At least a decade for electronics, and that has generally has been my experience. For me earlier device retirements is typically due to progress in technology and not failure. With current AVRs? My current one is a 2015 model Denon in daily use but then I've put Noctua fans on top of it for cooling.

 

[sarumbear]

Normally those lifespan specs are at maximum rated temperature. Typically, if you see 7000 hours, it means 7000 hours at 105 celcius. So it's not such simple basic arithmetics. It will last 7000 hours if your system is pushed to the limit of operations all the time. It can last way more.

I hear you. It seems, according to a renown PSU manufacturer life expectancy doubles with each reduction of 10 C. According to this test the unit was hot to touch, hence safe to assume 40-50 C internal temperatures. 105-45=60/10=6*7000=42,000hrs life expectancy. A very long time indeed.

Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

A switcher PSU. The purists' heads will explode.

Actually, a properly engineered and made SMPS is cleaner than linear, sometimes by much!
There are objective measurements of this (I can not remember where, though), but it is shown that an cheap SMPS came closest to a battery in measurements.

Regarding the item itself, it is waaay too expensive for me, can not afford.
So be it crap or fantastic, is not gonna bother me, perhaps it does Amir and/or Elon! but not me.

 

[Trell]

I hear you. It seems, according to a renown PSU manufacturer life expectancy doubles with each reduction of 10 C. According to this test the unit was hot to touch, hence safe to assume 40-50 C internal temperatures. 105-45=60/10=6*7000=42,000hrs life expectancy. A very long time indeed.

Thank you for pointing this out.

If the unit was hot to touch on the outside the internal temperature is much higher than 40-50 C. How much? You'll need to measure. Do note that there is no airflow inside the unit and it's not clear that the heat generating components are directly connected to the chassis for cooling.

Anecdotally I've built two passively cooled mini-ITX PCs nine years ago that are in daily use and still working, but one external power brick failed and I replaced it. The chassis will become warm to touch, but not hot, unless I run something like Prime95 for stress test. Here the chassis is a heat sink for the CPU/iGPU.

 

[Azathoth]

You have listened to one? I guess it depends how you define or ‘measure’ sound quality.

A member here had a Qutest and came to my house, heard the Dave and bought one the next day. He seemed quite taken aback by the difference. I believe the Qutest reviewed well here?

The store I go to has Chord demo units, and sound quality is how faithful the original signal is being reproduced.

 

[Billy Budapest]

I put down the performance as “fine” because objectively, there is nothing so wrong about its performance to justify a lesser ranking. Yes, there are strange anomalies with the modulating noise floor and distortion is not SOTA, but the much-touted digital filtering is excellent and the jitter performance is very good. But for $14,000? You could do a whole lot better in many ways for $200.

 

[MAB]

If the unit was hot to touch on the outside the internal temperature is much higher than 40-50 C. How much? You'll need to measure. Do note that there is no airflow inside the unit.

Yes, elevated temp is a possible issue here. And with the thing being sealed up like a bathyscaphe, difficult to know what exact use condition this capacitor was subjected to.
We had a good time with capacitor rel calculations here, but we are missing a few details of the actual use of this capacitor. I am left wondering if Chord had the same active discussion during development; I can only imagine the Quality and Reliability team facepalming when they saw the thermal design.

 

[Hxx]

But for $14,000?

it probably comes in at your doorstep via a private jet hand delivered by a flight attendant. She may even bring u lunch or dinner or something so yeah not cheap

 

[Patrick van Straaten]

Le corde pour se pendre. French joke, impossible to translate.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I hear you. It seems, according to a renown PSU manufacturer life expectancy doubles with each reduction of 10 C. According to this test the unit was hot to touch, hence safe to assume 40-50 C internal temperatures. 105-45=60/10=6*7000=42,000hrs life expectancy. A very long time indeed.

Thank you for pointing this out.

Capacitors in power supply are just about the only thing that could fail.
Since capacitors are rated at full ripple current at temperatures of 85 C to 105 C, 50/60 C ain't much!
Those capacitors are run being run at anything near full ripple current, at even 80 C (finger sticking) they will last a long time.
At most they fail! very cheap to replace.
Has there been any reports of any Chord DAC failing prematurely?

 

[MAB]

Le corde pour se pendre. French joke, impossible to translate.

Ouch!

 

[sarumbear]

Capacitors in power supply are just about the only thing that could fail.
Since capacitors are rated at full ripple current at temperatures of 85 C to 105 C, 50/60 C ain't much!
Those capacitors are run being run at anything near full ripple current, at even 80 C (finger sticking) they will last a long time.
At most they fail! very cheap to replace.
Has there been any reports of any Chord DAC failing prematurely?

There is a picture on this thread that shows a bulging capacitor which is not on the power supply section.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Le corde pour se pendre. French joke, impossible to translate.

Good one!
Pun intended, I guess.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

There is a picture on this thread that shows a bulging capacitor which is not on the power supply section.

where was it?
OK, I saw it, by the headphone socket.
Beats me! Good job you get 5 year warranty.
If it was general heat, there are numerous other caps in there - perhaps it was a dodgy cap.
All that chunk of ALU does act as natural heatsink.

 

[Trell]

Yes, elevated temp is a possible issue here. And with the thing being sealed up like a bathyscaphe, difficult to know what exact use condition this capacitor was subjected to.
We had a good time with capacitor rel calculations here, but we are missing a few details of the actual use of this capacitor. I am left wondering if Chord had the same active discussion during development; I can only imagine the Quality and Reliability team facepalming when they saw the thermal design.

Chord is a marketing driven audio company selling very high priced products using very dubious arguments (lying, really) to consumers with big pockets; not an engineering one. Contrast this with the German company RME making audio interfaces and mic preamps for the pros, but have a very big hit with their ADI-2 DAC and Pro to consumers.

 

[Trell]

where was it?

You can try going back a few pages and have a look.

 

[MAB]

I notice that electrolyte at right side close to headphone jack is swelling , it shows that it is dry capacitor because of heat !! is it the same unit that Amir measure it ?
View attachment 220175

where was it?

Hi @KenTajalli, here it is!

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Hi @KenTajalli, here it is!

Thanx, I saw it.

 

[PeteL]

Chord is a marketing driven audio company selling very high priced products using very dubious arguments (lying, really) to consumers with big pockets; not an engineering one. Contrast this with the German company RME making audio interfaces and mic preamps for the pros, but have a very big hit with their ADI-2 DAC and Pro to consumers.

When you are not an engineering driven company but a marketing driven one, you purchase OEM design from "engineering" companies, and you put your logo on it. That's a marketing driven company, you certainly don't go trough the huge developing cost of designing your own Dac algorithm on a FPGA platform with in house custom multitap filters instead of going for a proven ready to produce chip solution. Chord is the very definition of an engineering driven company.

 

[MAB]

Chord is a marketing driven audio company selling very high priced products using very dubious arguments (lying, really) to consumers with big pockets; not an engineering one. Contrast this with the German company RME making audio interfaces and mic preamps for the pros, but have a very big hit with their ADI-2 DAC and Pro to consumers.

I say "Quality and Reliability" team with a large dose of skepticism!
Totally 100% agreed with your assessment of Chord. Like, their claim to fame (reconstruction filter) is so unimportant, theoretically interesting but audibly identical to so many other filters. This is a distraction from the many things not well executed.
And agreed with your assessment of RME too.