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Chord DAVE Measurements (With MScaler) by GoldenSound

MaxBuck

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The entire tenor of this thread has been about whether the performance of the DAVE justifies its price
Actually, the thread title simply refers to the device's measurements. And those measurements are just fine.

You have taken it upon yourself to crusade about the value for dollar, a topic I regard as being up to individual consumers to make based upon their own criteria. It wouldn't be a cost effective purchase for me; for other people it might be.
 

srkbear

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Actually, the thread title simply refers to the device's measurements. And those measurements are just fine.

You have taken it upon yourself to crusade about the value for dollar, a topic I regard as being up to individual consumers to make based upon their own criteria. It wouldn't be a cost effective purchase for me; for other people it might be.
For the benefit of others’ enjoyment on this thread, and in the service of not fueling further judgmental suppositions about my motives, I’m going to offer my respect for your opinion and let this one go. Peace.
 

DSJR

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Just to add that even in the cash strapped UK, there's a tier of fairly wealthy people willing to buy this stuff without blinking. Locally, it's newly retired businessmen with pension pot handouts buying into 'The UK's terrible Twosome' for vinyl and amps ('cos they couldn't afford to when starting out in the 80's) and the Naim Statement amp is actually selling over here in fairly steady numbers (look up the price - Chord gear is beer budget in comparison).

I'm sure it was at a show some time (decades) back I ventured into the Chord room at one of the posher UK shows and heard the head of Chord Electronics say that sales increased when the posher amplifier cases started to be utilised. They're not in the real world for the rest of us, but people do buy into the build and style and I reckon it's something the likes of Accuphase, Luxman (lower cost than Accuphase so perceived as too 'common') and maybe McIntosh too (Mac stuff really does have a huge endearing following going back incredibly far)..

Let these people think that Topping and their ilk are toys for paupers - their money to burn and they're probably well off enough not to worry and will jump to the new Dave as and when it arrives, saying how much better it sounds and how many more veils are lifted. I mean, Schiit are US designed and made and now have well sorted tech as well as a story to tell and absolutely no reported downgrade to the sonic performance either due to the better tech performance they can now offer- we like those too here! Interesting psychology behind these people as discussed over several threads... I think as long as 'we' don't *just* rely on SINAD as the only holy-grail aspect and look at a balanced performance all round, we should be heading in the right direction hopefully.
 

srkbear

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Just to add that even in the cash strapped UK, there's a tier of fairly wealthy people willing to buy this stuff without blinking. Locally, it's newly retired businessmen with pension pot handouts buying into 'The UK's terrible Twosome' for vinyl and amps ('cos they couldn't afford to when starting out in the 80's) and the Naim Statement amp is actually selling over here in fairly steady numbers (look up the price - Chord gear is beer budget in comparison).

I'm sure it was at a show some time (decades) back I ventured into the Chord room at one of the posher UK shows and heard the head of Chord Electronics say that sales increased when the posher amplifier cases started to be utilised. They're not in the real world for the rest of us, but people do buy into the build and style and I reckon it's something the likes of Accuphase, Luxman (lower cost than Accuphase so perceived as too 'common') and maybe McIntosh too (Mac stuff really does have a huge endearing following going back incredibly far)..

Let these people think that Topping and their ilk are toys for paupers - their money to burn and they're probably well off enough not to worry and will jump to the new Dave as and when it arrives, saying how much better it sounds and how many more veils are lifted. I mean, Schiit are US designed and made and now have well sorted tech as well as a story to tell and absolutely no reported downgrade to the sonic performance either due to the better tech performance they can now offer- we like those too here! Interesting psychology behind these people as discussed over several threads... I think as long as 'we' don't *just* rely on SINAD as the only holy-grail aspect and look at a balanced performance all round, we should be heading in the right direction hopefully.
Bravo!
 

192kbps

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I'm sorry, I've already seen that video. Explain your problem with it.
 

srkbear

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I could use a catch up on the debate in play here. Can I ask what your position is and what I should be focusing on in these links please?
 

Ingenieur

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I don't think you really appreciate how introducing ABX testing is going to affect the brain. It's far more complicated that a lot of people like to think. Therefore tests really need to be designed with that in mind in order to minimise effects. Telling someone "This is how the test shall be conducted and if you complain about it we will belittle you" is not the best way.
Nonsense.
It's not like you are being shot at.
It should be enjoyable, but that is an individual mindset. It's not a professional licensure exam or a deposition. Lol

The issue is 'audiophiles' are not trained listeners or evaluators. You are trying to detect the difference between 2 components and whether it actually exists.
Not whether you 'like' one better.
Some people like shrill, some 'dark'.

All the test should determine is 'did you hear a difference' to test claims of sonic or audible improvements.
Can you hear any difference,
Not which one you like, that's up to the guy laying out the cash.
 

Ingenieur

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Facepalm is right. FYI crimped insulated spade lugs are objectively the "right" way to connect to the IEC outlet. Crimping spade lugs are more reliable, less susceptible to damage, insulated so if they come loose they are objectively safer, they don't result in a heat effected zone, provide limited strain relief, and above all are the correct connector to mate with the socket.

Anyone who has done an electrical engineering degree learns two practical things: how to solder, and more importantly when not to.
I have an EE degree. Assembly methods were not part of the curriculum.
I agree, if the proper size/type connector (V, I, etc.), proper tool and correct work practice, they are perfectly suitable for the application.
 

KSTR

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Does that not depend on whether the other circuitry in the device is galvanically isolated?
Well, it would not make any sense to isolate anything else than a digital input (and any mains power supply, of course). The only exception I've ever seen is the occasional audio transformer based analog output.
 

srkbear

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Well, it would not make any sense to isolate anything else than a digital input (and any mains power supply, of course). The only exception I've ever seen is the occasional audio transformer based analog output.
Thanks. The Zen Stream I use for my signal source allegedly has ANC and noise isolation built into its USB output, and I feed it into a Topping D90se. My system is dead-quiet to me, although I lack any measurement instruments to verify objectively.

I’m not sure what Rob Watt’s motive is in raising this topic in his latest unsolicited lecture on Head-Fi, but many folks are slavishly expressing their gratitude to him for illuminating this insight. Some seem to be rushing to yank out their USB connections in favor of TOSLINK connections, and I just don’t get the need—I have many music sources with sampling frequencies above which TOSLINK can handle, and they sound terrific to me through USB. :/
 

garbz

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Assembly methods were not part of the curriculum.
Oh that is a crying shame, we had a good semester on reliability of design which covered a lot of things including vibration, heat management, current limits, etc.
 

Ingenieur

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Oh that is a crying shame, we had a good semester on reliability of design which covered a lot of things including vibration, heat management, current limits, etc.
We covered those topics obviously.
Not how to crimp or solder. That is learned thru experience in an environment using those techniques. We had labs to confirm what we learned.

It was not a trade school or technology based but taught us the basics to derive and teach ourselves the rest. Pull up a manufactures manual and know how to interpret and use it.

As far as 'spades' or crimped insulated connectors,, they can be used, and are, in mil spec applications.
Resistance, thermal stress, pull out strength, vibration, etc. are all considered.
 
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tah800

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If this chord Dac and M Scaler measure so poorly why can’t these reviewers hear it. I have seen all kinds of reviews on this product and all of them have been top drawer. Should we write these guys and say You guys are full of shit. Just grap up the little Topping Dac at 700 bucks and you should hear a big difference.Just check out Amir’s testing
 

JSmith

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Should we write these guys and say You guys are full of shit. Just grap up the little Topping Dac at 700 bucks and you should hear a big difference.Just check out Amir’s testing
Apart from Topping necessarily and $700... about bang on, although instead of saying "you guys are gull of shit", instead ask for more evidence of their assertion rather than just "my ears".
If this chord Dac and M Scaler measure so poorly why can’t these reviewers hear it.
The Dave tests were decent...
However the M-Scaler does nothing apart from introducing unwanted jitter, noise and doesn't play nice with 3rd party DAC's it seems;


JSmith
 

Rottmannash

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amirm

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If this chord Dac and M Scaler measure so poorly why can’t these reviewers hear it. I have seen all kinds of reviews on this product and all of them have been top drawer. Should we write these guys and say You guys are full of shit. Just grap up the little Topping Dac at 700 bucks and you should hear a big difference.Just check out Amir’s testing
I am confident that Chord could take the M-scaler, take out all of its guts and just wired its input to output, these people would still give them positive reviews! This is the power of branding and marketing (really story telling). Whoever says M-scaler does anything, should come back and show they can tell it is in the audio path correctly 9 out of 10 times. Until then, they are reviewing with their eyes, not ears.

And remember, these so called reviewers give praise to *every* expensive piece of gear they review. Go ahead and see which expensive product they don't like. It just doesn't happen. In that regard, a product like this getting N positive reviews means nothing.

As for topping, owner of Dave DAC bought it while I had his Chord and couldn't be happier. So you have at least that one proof point with no personal motivation. Heck, he felt guilty selling his m-scaler to anyone else given lack of effectiveness (which he had observed prior to sending it to me).
 

BDWoody

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If this chord Dac and M Scaler measure so poorly why can’t these reviewers hear it. I have seen all kinds of reviews on this product and all of them have been top drawer. Should we write these guys and say You guys are full of shit. Just grap up the little Topping Dac at 700 bucks and you should hear a big difference.Just check out Amir’s testing

You mentioned in another post that you've watched all of Amir's videos. Maybe watch this one again.

 

Arnas

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I am confident that Chord could take the M-scaler, take out all of its guts and just wired its input to output, these people would still give them positive reviews! This is the power of branding and marketing (really story telling). Whoever says M-scaler does anything, should come back and show they can tell it is in the audio path correctly 9 out of 10 times. Until then, they are reviewing with their eyes, not ears.

And remember, these so called reviewers give praise to *every* expensive piece of gear they review. Go ahead and see which expensive product they don't like. It just doesn't happen. In that regard, a product like this getting N positive reviews means nothing.

As for topping, owner of Dave DAC bought it while I had his Chord and couldn't be happier. So you have at least that one proof point with no personal motivation. Heck, he felt guilty selling his m-scaler to anyone else given lack of effectiveness (which he had observed prior to sending it to me).
Even if buyers gonna hear a difference its not gonna be a positive one.
Ofcource coping mechanism kicks in after such expensice purchase and worse becomes better.
 

NiagaraPete

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DSJR

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If this chord Dac and M Scaler measure so poorly why can’t these reviewers hear it. I have seen all kinds of reviews on this product and all of them have been top drawer. Should we write these guys and say You guys are full of shit. Just grap up the little Topping Dac at 700 bucks and you should hear a big difference.Just check out Amir’s testing
I attended a dealer presentation of the newish Chord Ultima preamp and amp systems and both dems used an M-Scaler and Dave as sources fed by various (Melco?) systems. The sound in both systems was dry, with reverb info very tightly 'over-damped' and I apologise for not being able to put a finger on what it was doing it. despite the tech, casework engineering, looks and huge price tags. None of that 'extra 3-D' the M-Scaler is supposed to introduce.

A couple of weeks back in the same room, I'd heard a pair of Dynaudio Focus 50's, an eight and a half grand *wireless active* tower speaker (Paschal amp modules in each I gather) fed by the audio salon's ('store' is far too common a word) wireless music streaming system using Roon, Qubuz and an iPad to access and direct it (I'm seriously not well up on music streaming so apologies for the descriptive crudeness). The presented soundstage was all but holographic in comparison and each piece played invited another and another - one of those rare systems you could spend all night playing (as I don't trust my ears and knowing that Dynaudio have serious test and development gear and engineers able to use and interpret the results, I'd love to see them tested properly). I played my own lash-up a few days later and it was 'nice' but totally lacked that 'portal into the recording as presented I heard that evening...
 
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