Choosing Crossover Components

[MT_bassbone]

Hello,

I purchased plans for the Heissmann Acoustics DXT MON-182 speakers. The plan designates the values of the crossover parts but not a brand or model. So I have been looking over parts and have questions.

Inductors

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated. Is one better than the other? Is it ok to mix brands to get the right values? Or would it be better to get the same brand but fudge a little with the values.

Capacitors

Jantzen and Mundorf capacitors seem to be the most available to me. For Jantzen, is there a major difference between the Cross Caps and Standard Z-caps? I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor. It has been difficult to choose a model for the Mundorf capacitors. I want to get decent parts but I don't want to get parts that are disproportionately more expensive than the rest of the speaker. The drivers are less than $600 USD.

Also, would it be better to replace any electrolytic capacitors with a MKP of the same value? Or is that not a good idea?

Resistors

Would using wire wound resistors be a better choice than metal oxide resistors? Is ok to mix brands? Some of the values are hard to find.

Bonus question: Anyone have any tips on how to cut the angled chamfers on the baffle?

Any insight you might have would be appreciated.

 

[Keith_W]

Bonus question: Anyone have any tips on how to cut the angled chamfers on the baffle?

I'll leave the electronics questions to guys who are better qualified than me to answer. But for this question: you need a table router with the appropriate cutting tool.

 

[TheLastGerman]

I'll leave the electronics questions to guys who are better qualified than me to answer. But for this question: you need a table router with the appropriate cutting tool.

Not necessarily – there are other ways: https://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=1441
With regard to capacitors, this reading may be helpful: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tor-upgrade-in-crossover-is-it-audible.12287/
For resistors have a look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-low-inductance-resistor-is-it-audible.12162/

 

[Ktacos]

There is a lot of wiggle room with crossover components. Generally as long as you have the correct values you're good, with any component differences being so small they don't matter. The only one that tends to make any different is the resistive nature of different inductors, but even then this is typically a very small difference depending on where the inductor is used.

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated. Is one better than the other? Is it ok to mix brands to get the right values? Or would it be better to get the same brand but fudge a little with the values.

Brand doesn't matter. Try to stick to the same inductance values, same AWG. There are different inductor cores but I just buy air core unless it's a high value inductor. Any core differences won't shot up until you hit wattage that you shouldn'treally send to your speakers.

Jantzen and Mundorf capacitors seem to be the most available to me. For Jantzen, is there a major difference between the Cross Caps and Standard Z-caps? I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor. It has been difficult to choose a model for the Mundorf capacitors. I want to get decent parts but I don't want to get parts that are disproportionately more expensive than the rest of the speaker. The drivers are less than $600 USD.

Also, would it be better to replace any electrolytic capacitors with a MKP of the same value? Or is that not a good idea?

Fancy expensive caps are a total waste of money and pure snake oil. A Cap shouldn't cost more than a few bucks tops. Just buy the cheapest ones you can get that don't look like crap, if you care about that. Generally a lot cheaper to use electrolytic caps when the value gets high.

Would using wire wound resistors be a better choice than metal oxide resistors? Is ok to mix brands? Some of the values are hard to find.

Super duper doesn't matter which resistors you pick, there's no real difference between them. Should generally be the cheapest parts in the xover and not cost more than a $1-2 per resistor.

If you can't find a component I'm sure one of us can hunt it down at a place that will deliver to you.

 

[Duke]

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated...

Actually they are all coated. Some just have a clear coat, or a copper-colored coat, or something like that.

I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor.

Capacitor values add when you wire them in parallel. So if you need 6.5 uF, and you have a 6.2 uF cap and a .33 uF cap, that adds to 6.53 uF, which is close enough.

 

[DVDdoug]

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated. Is one better than the other? Is it ok to mix brands to get the right values? Or would it be better to get the same brand but fudge a little with the values.

The closer to the ideal value the better and a closer tolerance value is better. Higher current rating is OK. It's the same with capacitors and with capacitors, higher voltage rating is OK.

As Duke says, there are no bare wire inductors. But there are air-core and iron core. I'm not 100% sure about the real audio effects of the trade-offs. Air core requires more turns so more wire and more resistance (although resistance also depends on wire gauge) and air-core may be more linear but I'm not sure if that makes the speaker "sound better". It seems like air-core is more common

Also, would it be better to replace any electrolytic capacitors with a MKP of the same value? Or is that not a good idea?

Electrolytic capacitors have to be non polarized (special for crossovers). Normal electrolytics are polarized and work only with DC voltage. (Audio is AC in case you don't know.) So if you use them make sure to buy non-polarized. Electrolytic capacitors don't come with tight tolerances and their capacitance value can drop as they age. The may have some non-linearity but again I don't think it affects the sound. Other capacitor types are more stable, they "last forever" and you can get them with 1-2% tolerance. The only advantage to electrolytics is lower cost. But, they generally "work" and I believe most crossovers use electrolytic capacitors.

 

[gwing]

Well, making your own crossover is going to involve some choices on components without the benefit of having tested and measured everything available so my approach was to just use decent quality lowish ESR film caps not audio specific magic fairy dust components. You can get such items sufficiently cheaply there is no need to just get the cheapest possible construction even if they are perhaps likely to be indistinguishable audibly.

Large value capacitors required for low frequency crosses are different and you likely will need to use electrolytics for these (although in my search to avoid electrolytics I once built a 3-way with enormous film capacitors used in electric lawnmowers). For these just use the same logic and get economical but good measuring low esr components.

I don't know if this will actually result in something sounding better but it might do, and even if it doesn't you'll probably enjoy listening to your speakers more if you aren't endlessly wondering if your work might have been better Just don't waste ridiculous amounts of money buying jewelry rather than performance.

 

[terryforsythe]

Inductors

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated. Is one better than the other? Is it ok to mix brands to get the right values? Or would it be better to get the same brand but fudge a little with the values.

One is not better than the other. It is fine to mix brands. Choose the ones with inductance and resistance that match your design.

Capacitors

Jantzen and Mundorf capacitors seem to be the most available to me. For Jantzen, is there a major difference between the Cross Caps and Standard Z-caps? I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor. It has been difficult to choose a model for the Mundorf capacitors. I want to get decent parts but I don't want to get parts that are disproportionately more expensive than the rest of the speaker. The drivers are less than $600 USD.

Also, would it be better to replace any electrolytic capacitors with a MKP of the same value? Or is that not a good idea?

Cross Caps or Z-caps are fine.

I doubt you will hear an audible difference replacing electrolytic capacitors with film capacitors, especially if used on a woofer. Film capitors do tend to hold up better over long periods of time, though. Whatever you go with, make sure the specified tolerances are acceptable for the design. From what I have seen, film capacitors tend to hold tighter tolerances. Decades ago I designed film capacitors. Even though we specified them as +/- 5% tolerance, typically they held +/- 2% or better. A batch of electrolytic capacitors specified at +/- 5% may use every bit of that tolerance.

Resistors

Would using wire wound resistors be a better choice than metal oxide resistors? Is ok to mix brands? Some of the values are hard to find.

The most important issue are the values and power ratings of the resistors.

Bonus question: Anyone have any tips on how to cut the angled chamfers on the baffle?

I used to use a router with a 45 degree chamfer bit for 3/4" chamfers.

 

[MAB]

I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor.

What is the required capacitance?

 

[MT_bassbone]

What is the required capacitance?

.82 uF

 

[MAB]

.82 uF

This is available in my region from a number of manufactures. For example Panasonic ECW metalized Polypropylene capacitors, 0.82 uF, 5%, 250 V:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ECW-F2824JAQ/2175334

US $1.38 each ($0.95 each for 10, $0.45 each in bulk).

These or equivalent KMET, WIMA, TDK, Würth, etc. will perform the same as any boutique capacitor marketed as speaker-crossover-specific.

I'm not sure where you are located, but a reputable seller of electronic components should have this value available from a reputable manufacturer for under $2 USD. Note: Amazon, Ali*, and all of those online flea-markets are not a good place to buy these due to fake products.

I have loads of fancy capacitors I used to buy for my DIY projects, they were a monumental waste since they sometimes cost more than the rest of the build. I was really naïve back then since there were not readily available measurements, all of which I could have performed myself if I had just taken the time. Snake-oil lubricates bad capacitor purchases for sure.

 

[MAB]

Bonus question: Anyone have any tips on how to cut the angled chamfers on the baffle?

See Troels' website for faceting / chamfering tips and methods.

Tips and ideas

 

[blondie]

Hello,

I purchased plans for the Heissmann Acoustics DXT MON-182 speakers. The plan designates the values of the crossover parts but not a brand or model. So I have been looking over parts and have questions.

The crossover components are important if you want the speakers to perform as the designer intended.

The Heissmann Acoustics DXT MON-182 kit component list does include the make/model/type for the components:

DXT-MON 182 | Reference speaker | Technology kit

Technology kit DXT-MON 182 | Reference compact speaker with Wavecor WF182BD09, Seas DXT 27TBCD / GB and Dayton-Audio DSA215-PR

heissmann-acoustics.de

• 6x Audaphon / Jantzen Cross Cap MKP
• 1x Audaphone MKT
• 2x Audaphon / Mundorf air core 1,0mm
• 3x Audaphon / Mundorf air core 0,7mm
• 7x Metal Oxide Resistor MOX 10W

I'd contact them if you need more info.

The components would have been carefully selected. There are no electrolytics in the list and including them would change the overall sound. The selected caps will last a long time, electrolytics will deteriorate over time.

Another thing, the layout of the components on the crossover is important. They include a picture of the layout on their web site but they should include all this information in the plans you purchased.

 

[Ktacos]

I would not buy mundorf inductors, just a waste of money.

 

[Smithlog]

Hello,

I purchased plans for the Heissmann Acoustics DXT MON-182 speakers. The plan designates the values of the crossover parts but not a brand or model. So I have been looking over parts and have questions.

Inductors

Some inductors are bare wire and others are coated. Is one better than the other? Is it ok to mix brands to get the right values? Or would it be better to get the same brand but fudge a little with the values.

Capacitors

Jantzen and Mundorf capacitors seem to be the most available to me. For Jantzen, is there a major difference between the Cross Caps and Standard Z-caps? I can't find one of the capacitors in the right value so I am choosing the Cross Caps one for that capacitor. It has been difficult to choose a model for the Mundorf capacitors. I want to get decent parts but I don't want to get parts that are disproportionately more expensive than the rest of the speaker. The drivers are less than $600 USD.

Also, would it be better to replace any electrolytic capacitors with a MKP of the same value? Or is that not a good idea?

Resistors

Would using wire wound resistors be a better choice than metal oxide resistors? Is ok to mix brands? Some of the values are hard to find.

Bonus question: Anyone have any tips on how to cut the angled chamfers on the baffle?

Any insight you might have would be appreciated.

I'd say stick to the specified values , mixing brands is fine. Air-core inductors, decent MKP caps, and metal-oxide or wire-wound resistors all work well; no need to overspend. Replacing small electrolytics with MKPs is usually fine if they fit. For the chamfers, a table saw or router with a chamfer bit does the job cleanly.

 

[Ktacos]

I'd say stick to the specified values , mixing brands is fine. Air-core inductors, decent MKP caps, and metal-oxide or wire-wound resistors all work well; no need to overspend. Replacing small electrolytics with MKPs is usually fine if they fit. For the chamfers, a table saw or router with a chamfer bit does the job cleanly.

I don't think they make router bits big enough to the chamfer on the 182, definitely a job for a table saw.

 

[Halbknapp]

I have the DXT Mon 182, for the chamfer you could use some metal bands that you stick with double sided tape to the box and use them as guides where the saw would glide.
If not purchased already i would use the Jantzen standard z caps for in-line of the tweeter and cross caps for everything else except the one bigger capacitor parallel to the woofer where it would be too expensive and make no difference.

 

[MT_bassbone]

Another forum member provided this solution:

 

[carbidetooth]

One thing to consider if you use a handsaw is the saw itself. You want a saw that has no set to the teeth or you'll be snagging it on the guides. Most garden variety hand saws in US have alternating opposite set teeth. Many, if not most, Japanese saws do not. Not sure about European.

 

[MT_bassbone]

One thing to consider if you use a handsaw is the saw itself. You want a saw that has no set to the teeth or you'll be snagging it on the guides. Most garden variety hand saws in US have alternating opposite set teeth. Many, if not most, Japanese saws do not. Not sure about European.

That same thought crossed my mind. I figured I would use a Japanese pull saw. Likely get a better finish that would require less sanding too.