I don't hear any hum from my Denon 4700. Even with my ear touching the Sierra Tower grills -- it's dead quiet.
Last edited:
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Choosing between the Denon X8500H, X6700H, X4700H and X3700H (Updated)
- Thread starter bigguyca
- Start date
I don't hear any hum from my Denon 4700. Even with my ear touching the Sierra Tower grills -- it's dead quiet.
I only hear the hum when using the Denon as a preamp to the power amp. Zero hum when using the internal amps. Here is the audioholics thread that I found when troubleshooting the hum. Maybe it only applies to a subset of components. I will state that the power grounding of my system is solid.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/ground-loop-through-dc-trigger-cable.75964/
Last edited:
Interesting. I have a 7.2.4 setup on the Denon 4700 with Monolith 7x200 external amp and an old Adcom 5 channel. I turn the amps on manually when I want them to play. I don't use the trigger function. Speakers are dead quiet.
Yep. It only happens to me when the trigger cable is connected and using the external amp, so I assume it’s a signal ground loop between the interconnects and DC trigger.
Last edited:
Has anyone seen the max output numbers for the pre-outs? I see Amir was able to get 4.4V out of the 6700. The VTV Purifi EVAL1 needs 3.4V, I believe, for max power so just want to be sure I can get there even if SINAD drops a bit
Yes, the Purifi EVAL1 designed amps can be powered to their full potential with the Denon 6700 in pre-amp mode. The only caution I would offer is if you plan to expand to a 7.2.4 Home Theatre setup consider using the same amps for all channels (to avoid mixing amps with significantly different gain structures). If you will only use the 6700 for stereo this is obviously not a concern.
Thanks! I know the 6700 can do it, but what about others in the lineup? For myself I'm trying to decide between 8500 and 6700, and testing only shows 8500 up to 2V nor is there a max listed in the manual.
Also, you bring up a good point about gain structures. It's extremely common to use higher W outboard for F/L, and then either on-board or smaller outboard for the remainder. For example VTV makes a unit with 2x1ET400 and 3x125W Hypex; woul Audyssey reconcile potential differences in volume in that scenario? Or because they use same/similar input buffer it's not an issue?
If you are planning on using the Denon 6700 or 8500 solely in preamp mode, what kind of improvement are you expecting over the Denon 4700?
Many use smaller amps on the surrounds and heights and that's usually fine with ATMOS, but I like to use the same power and brand amp on all channels for Multi-channel Stereo support.
Many use smaller amps on the surrounds and heights and that's usually fine with ATMOS, but I like to use the same power and brand amp on all channels for Multi-channel Stereo support.
All of the 2020 models from the X3700H and up can do 4 V but at lower SINAD performance even in preamp mode.
2-3 dB difference in gain such as from 26 to 29 dB is not an issue. Yes auto setup will balance things off for you, but under some conditions, given the right combinations performance could go down enough to be audible the odds are likely low, all things consider.
An example of a bad enough combinations could be:
With the right (or wrong, rather), that resulted in you end up pushing the AVR hard enough for the pre out to go well above 2 or even 3 V because of the following (just an example):
- The amp with the lowest gain is relatively low, such as 27 dB or less.
- Inefficient speakers, such as <86 dB/2.83V/1m, impedance <8 Ohms with dips to 2 to 4 Ohms.
- You listen to relatively high SPL.
- You have run Audyssey, and it might have applied maximum boost to frequencies that aligned with the impedance dips
Now if you are mixing amps with 29 dB and 32 dB gain amps then there should be no issues, even though the difference between them is till 3 dB as it is in the case of mixing 26 and 29 dB gain amps.
4V was my guess but since it's RCA, I wasn't confident - thanks!
On your 2nd point, I'm really glad you illustrated it that way. The 1ET400 sheet shows 12.8dB typical - the Hypex 252 shows 25dB! Am i correct in thinking Hypex is accounting for the buffer they would typically supply/recommend? Or am I completely reading all this wrong?
If it is as low as 25 dB, I would suggest you bite the bullet and get the buffer. If not, it will still work but performance may or may not suffer as it depends on some of the conditions I mentioned. The simple fact is, the overall gain is the combined gain of the preamp and power amp, so it you lose 5 dB of gain on the power amp side, you will need the level settings to increase the preamp gain. So suddenly you may in fact be counting on higher than 2 V from the pre out. Just because it can do 4 V (RCA), doesn't mean you want your Denon to spend too much time up there.
It is best to keep the pre out operating at lower voltage such as around 1 V and below most of the time, and only traverse to 2, 2.5 V or higher during the highest peaks. That's just my opinion, others may disagree.Looks like Denon has released a "fix" for the HDMI 2.1 issues, I saw a google article on it here's the link, good news for xbox users etc!
https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/4k-120hz-8k-adapter
Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my 4700 to arrive...
https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/4k-120hz-8k-adapter
Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my 4700 to arrive...
Last edited:
My goal of creating a new AV room led me here looking for help choosing between the Denon AVR X8500 and X6700 to power a 7.1.4 set of SVS Ultra towers, center, surrounds and Prime Elevation rear and Atmos height speakers. While I do not fully understand the issues debated in this thread, I think the point is that while the mid and high end models of Denon AVR’s have similar processing abilities, all are degraded somewhat when using the internal amplification channels. I believe the recommended alternative is to instead use one of the mid range X4700 or X3700 Denon AVR’s for processing and amplification for the surround, rear and height speakers along with an Emotiva XPA-Gen3 3 channel amplifier for the L/R/C speakers or Emotiva XPA-Gen3 5 channel amplifier to include the surround speakers.
I understand that differing opinions are what these threads are all about, but I have not been able to determine if there is a consensus for what the optimum Denon AVR model and Emotiva combination may be for the Ultra speakers? I also do not understand the issues about the heat sinks in various models and need for additional external fans, do the Denon AVRs overheat?
Thanks for helping a newbie.
I understand that differing opinions are what these threads are all about, but I have not been able to determine if there is a consensus for what the optimum Denon AVR model and Emotiva combination may be for the Ultra speakers? I also do not understand the issues about the heat sinks in various models and need for additional external fans, do the Denon AVRs overheat?
Thanks for helping a newbie.
Although there some objective sonic differences displayed in these reviews, their pragmatism out in the realm world is questionable. There is no optimum model for any specific speaker in the vast majority of cases, rather whats optimal will depend on your use case. For example I wanted Auro3D, 8K connectivity and front wide support. For me that automatically means 6700 or AVR-110 but thus far I have yet to see a compelling reason to pay such a premium for the 110.
It really boils down to features - if it's just 7.1.4 you're after, almost any unit will do. As for the heat issue, again that depends somewhat on your use case but an external fan would likely extend the life of the unit by a bit. I'm not aware of any specific overheating issue within the boundaries of normal home theater use.
Thanks for your reply, tifune, that helps me make my questions more specific. As I am far from the 8k world, my primary goal for the 7.1.4 system is optimum audio quality from the SVS Ultra family of speakers mostly streaming HD audio flac files from a Synology NAS library and secondary goal is quality 4k video support to drive a front projector. I understand that the AVR models share a common set of base features, with some extras on the higher end models that eventually trickle down as they each get yearly updates. I am not sure what amount of processing quality improvements the more expensive models achieve versus supplying more channels of amplification with higher power outputs?
Can the difference between using the X8500/X6700 to power all of the speakers versus using the X4700/X3700 with an external 3 (or 5) channel amplifier for the L/R/C (with surrounds) be heard or an inaudible difference in lab measurements?
Can the amplifiers for the L/R/C (and possibly surround) channels be powered off to achieve the mentioned processing improvements in each of the X8500, X6700, X4700, X3700 models?
And a110only X8500
I use the pre-outs, and the X3500 is enough.
If this is your case, you don't need to spend more.
If this is your case, you don't need to spend more.
