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Choosing between Denon X8500H, X4700H and X3700H AVRs
- Thread starter bigguyca
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Trouble Maker
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Thank you for so clearly and concisely putting this, and in it's own thread. I've seen a lot of people asking this question in any and every thread so it's really good to have here. I hope people can realize and grasp the base reasoning and data, that they can also extrapolate this to situations outside of this lineup.
This is 1 area where my take is a little different. If the only reason for picking a higher version is total power and number of powered channel count I think you are usually better of using the price difference for an external power amp. For example someone asked about going from the 3700/4700 to 6700 for power and channel count. For the price difference ($1200) between the 3700 to 6700 you can buy a hell of a 2 (or 3 or 4) channel power amp. You can probably increase total power capability by 50~100% in this case; far more than the jump from even the 3700 all of the way up to the 8500. I think this also highlights your point of the kind of value the middle of Denon's lineup (3700/4700) represent. Of course if one wants higher number of channel processing the 6700 or 8500 is the only way to do it, but my brain puts that in the feature bucket (maybe unfairly because I would never use those in my size of space).
This is 1 area where my take is a little different. If the only reason for picking a higher version is total power and number of powered channel count I think you are usually better of using the price difference for an external power amp. For example someone asked about going from the 3700/4700 to 6700 for power and channel count. For the price difference ($1200) between the 3700 to 6700 you can buy a hell of a 2 (or 3 or 4) channel power amp. You can probably increase total power capability by 50~100% in this case; far more than the jump from even the 3700 all of the way up to the 8500. I think this also highlights your point of the kind of value the middle of Denon's lineup (3700/4700) represent. Of course if one wants higher number of channel processing the 6700 or 8500 is the only way to do it, but my brain puts that in the feature bucket (maybe unfairly because I would never use those in my size of space).
My belief is that without ASR, big corps like SU and Yamaha for sure (just my opinion) will not pay as much attention to the objective design goals in terms of continuous improvements, but resort mainly to gadgets and perpetuate, or worse feed on audiophile myths. Marantz is a good example, that their design team would tune the individual components/parts of the HDAMs by ears, is truly horrific, to me anyway.
Even if they have found such "sweet spot" that universally fits a large group of audience, how would they reconcile the other myth about "matching" (i.e. in terms of tonal/so called sound signature characteristics, and aside from the obvious valid matching requirements related to sensitivity, impedance etc.) The other myth they have seemingly created is the use of the slow roll-off filter. Yes to some people they may be able to tell a difference but then it should be selectable by the users, but no, again, they forced it on the users, assuming they would all prefer what their tune by ear experts in the design team preferred.
So, again, thanks to Amir who highlighted the difference between two teams, one go with the tune by ear, the other apparently wouldn't bother. Yet both seem to be capable of being transparent to the signal from input to output except amplification, that is, HDAM, filter choice or not, specs and measurements seem to indicate when using analog inputs in direct mode, no, or few, human with average hearing capability should be able to tell a difference in a DBT between something like the 3600 and 6014, all else being equal. I know this last point is going to be controversial, but.......
X4 used is probably the sweet spot, i would not bother spending more on an AVR even if i had to use less channels. I just lost out on an X3 recently, so I ended up with a Yamaha Aventage
Worth to note I recently heard that Yamahe A2*** and A3*** have better sub EQ than the lower models, though they are much more expensive. Even though you only need the A8** to get Pre-Outs and YPAO RSC. IDK if Denon has any other significant upgrades past the X3***.
Worth to note I recently heard that Yamahe A2*** and A3*** have better sub EQ than the lower models, though they are much more expensive. Even though you only need the A8** to get Pre-Outs and YPAO RSC. IDK if Denon has any other significant upgrades past the X3***.
If going 8k makes sense to probably get a unit that is 8k without having to send it in. On the open box, same return policy as other items. Often times, some dealers will sell an open box, that isn't even a returned unit but a new unit to advertise less than MAP pricing to move volume. Also check with a good dealer via phone is my advice. Often times it is just a new unit. Always worth checking.
I have a 4700H now, but have moved to a much smaller space where the size of the 4700H is a problem. I'm looking at the new Marantz NR1711. I'm only running FL, FR, Center, front heights and a sub..
I know I'm losing a HDMI port on the back and the front HDMI port, but what about the audio quality?
I know I'm losing a HDMI port on the back and the front HDMI port, but what about the audio quality?
I'm considering the X4700H and have a couple of questions. First is the heat issue. I would be running 5.2 speakers using the internal amps. Should I be worried/concerned about heat with this AVR? Second question regarding HDMI 2.1. I currently use a 2.0 fiber optic HDMI to pass through a 4k signal to my PJ. Would the X4700H 2.1 port pass a 4K signal through a 2.0HDMI cable? Thanks in advance
In regards to heat.. If it isn't in an enclosed area with lots of free space probably fine. Where I have found issues if it is in any kind of enclosed area then you such consider an aircom type of unit or usb fans.
Thanks for this (now year old) post. I got a 3700 with the sole intent of using it as a pre-amp for my Emotiva amps, which have a input sensitivity of 1.5v, so this whole idea of clipping at 1.4v was slightly concerning. Initially I didn't quite follow that with the amps completely off the clipping at 1.4v goes away.
I have the Denon X4700H setup on top of a cabinet in open air. It gets HOT without fans, if I'm not using ECO mode ON. I installed the $20 AC Infinity MULTIFAN S7 on top with fans blowing air up on the low setting and the heat dropped 20 degrees while the unit remained quiet. I tried the AC Infinity AIRCOM T10 first but even in low speed it was louder than the S7, cost 5x more and didn't do as good a job for my 4700.
I use standard 8K HDMI cables from Monoprice so I'm not familiar with your second question.
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It's been a while since that post. I bought a 4700 last February. I've had three Denon's fail from heat (one twice) all were HDMI/video boards
So I bought a new rack that is open on all sides, +5 inches all around and put 1/2" felt pads under the feet as well as an S7 on top....this time, hopefully it ain't gonna burn up again. lol
Sorry to hear that, what a inconvenience having to send it back more than once! Did they change the board under warranty each time and you only have to pay shipping one way?
I think >5 inches all around should be fine if the room temperature is in the mid 20's or so but I would still suggest one single 120 mm Infinity USB fan on top or blow from across from back to front. Just set it to the low speed and you won't hear it from you mlp.
I use the ac infinity t10 on top of my x3600h even on an open rack. What I've done is I cut up some foam air filter (for pc vent) and using double sided tape stuck them on the sides and back of the T10 to cover up the gap between the t10 and the avr like a drape. For the front, I rolled up a length of the foam to use like a draft stopper. I had to turn up the fans to speed 4 but it seems quieter. Also I think the temp sensor may now be reading more accurately as only air from within the avr comes through. Hope there's no problem heheh... Other than impotency from all the hot air blowing at my balls.
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First Denon fried just after warranty expired. I repaired it and sold it basically for the the cost of the repair. Next, Denon 4200 cooked HDMI/video card under warranty. Denon paid postage and repair cost but it took over a month for parts....same AVR same part failure at the 4 year point last year and Denon no longer stocks the 4 year old card so I haven't sent it to United Radio for a part rebuild and repair as once again there is no point to spending $600 to repair a poorly designed part on an AVR with outdated HDMI curcuits. Neither of these AVRs were ever over driven, they were in my basement HT where the ambient temperature is constantly between 72-74 F, the house has state of the art air filtration and the AVRs had plenty of air movement around them. Bad luck or crappy board design/heat management? I think it's the latter....my new 4700 operates substantially warmer to the touch than the two previous Denons....but once again I have taken extra precautions to keep the new one cooler.
I bought a Denon 4500 in Feb last year. By August, the height channels were crackling. I sent it in for repair per Denon's instructions to PanguryOEM. They had it for several months. It cost $100 to ship it to them. I started calling and they said the part was finally in and shipped it back to me. When I got it, the top and front of the receiver was badly scratched and mine looked like new when I sent it in. In addition, the front access panel was bent and wouldn't close. Denon paid the return shipping and said they would fix it a 2nd time. Two weeks later I was told it couldn't be fixed and they would replace it with another unit. I finally got another receiver but it was 3 months later.
Denon should offer free warranty return shipping and if they can't fix the unit within three weeks they should replace it. The way Denon handled my warranty, you pretty much had to buy another receiver if you need to ship the broken one to them. Since Denon closed repair access for local repair facilities it's almost impossible to get receivers fixed locally. Denon offers a nice receiver when it works but Denon warranty is not a service I want to experience again. The S7 fans have been great at keeping my 4700 fan cool. I certainly don't want another problem.
If my story was isolated I would chalk it up to bad luck. But in the last year I have read reports from other Denon users on their repair experience. They offered similar stories of delay and angst. Denon always comes through in the end. But customer's shouldn't need to wait 2 to 3 months for a repair issue to be resolved.
- Thread Starter
- #117
Shipping for units owned in California is free
I've posted this many times before, but anyway, if you live the People's Republic of California, per CA law, shipping both ways for warranty repairs is free. The unit can also be taken to any retailer that sells the brand and that retailer must handle the repairs - send the unit, whatever.
I have enforced this warranty for free shipping with warranty claims in the past, but haven't had occasion to do so with Denon/Marantz. I haven't take a unit back to a dealer from whom I hadn't purchased the unit. That might generate interesting situations.
Per memory, spare parts have to be available for at least five years in CA.
I've posted this many times before, but anyway, if you live the People's Republic of California, per CA law, shipping both ways for warranty repairs is free. The unit can also be taken to any retailer that sells the brand and that retailer must handle the repairs - send the unit, whatever.
I have enforced this warranty for free shipping with warranty claims in the past, but haven't had occasion to do so with Denon/Marantz. I haven't take a unit back to a dealer from whom I hadn't purchased the unit. That might generate interesting situations.
Per memory, spare parts have to be available for at least five years in CA.
- Thread Starter
- #119
Ok, I'll move to CA where homes cost 4x as much so I can get free shipping.
Use care if you move to CA. You might run head-on into one of the flood of people moving out of CA..., many of whom haven't learned a thing and screwup other states.
Funny thing is people and businesses are leaving Iowa for the exact opposite single party cess pool political and economic reasons. At least most Californians can read and write at least one language and have travelled outside of the county they were born in. lol
