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Chinese tube amps - risks and rewards?

Impaler

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I am new to this forum but have been involved in audio for six decades. I would like to reach out to the audience concerning tube amps, specifically power amps. My best experience was a Sonic Frontier Power 1, which I had sold and went back to ss. I am now looking at tubes again (I've kept my SF tube preamp) and was looking at some 300B/EL34/EL84 Chinese made amps, all under $1000 which is my budget now. Am I wasting money on these products or does anyone have any positive (or negative) experiences they could share?
 
My advice (and mine alone; no warranty express or implied): Avoid bargain priced vacuum tube hardware and you'll probably be OK. Buy from a local (i.e., in your country) dealer or distributor if at all possible, who will honor a warranty and to whom the amp can be returned if service is required. Otherwise, be prepared for a total loss of your "investment" (expenditure) -- just in case.

Full disclosure - I am a tube guy. I'd buy a Chinese-manufactured vacuum tube amplifier, but not a bargain-priced one of indeterminate provenance obtained from eBAY, Amazon, or AliExpress.
 
Tend to agree with @mhardy6647 - warranties aside, delicate stuff like tubes is not what you want going overseas packed in styrofoam, a DHL mailer, and a prayer. The cheaper you go, the cheaper everything gets including packaging.
 
That's a good point, @kemmler3D -- although historically, vacuum tubes weren't thought of as unreasonably delicate, and plenty of (e.g.) guided missles of the early days included vacuum tubes (albeit often very small ones, such as the so-called "pencil tubes"). I have a 30-ish year old pair of Chinese made "ValveArt" branded 2A3s which made their way from China to Washington state to my house in Massachusetts in pretty flimsy tube boxes (packed in a box with styrofoam peanuts, if memory serves) unscathed.

Tubes in this day and age are thought of as mysterious, ethereal, ephemeral, delicate, and expensive, and a cult-like perspective pervades the thinking of many of the tubistas nowadays. I note wryly that it's not uncommon for many of the mid/high end vacuum tube hifi components to include cotton gloves to handle the tubes! They're not halogen bulbs! :) They can get hot (power output tubes & HV rectifiers, e.g.), but not so hot that greasy fingers are going to compromise their envelopes! :cool:

Another pinch point for shipping -- now that you mention it -- can be the packing of components with heavy transformers on (sometimes) flimsy sheetmetal chassis.

Here's a real-world example that befell a hifi fellow-traveler/colleague of mine. This is a low-volume, handmade ST-70 "clone" made in the US. It was generally well packed, but there were no spacers between the heavy (dense) transformers, and UPS or FedEx worked their magic on the poor amp. The damage was only cosmetic, but it was damage. :(

Perhaps you can see from the photo below how the output transformers are "bowed in" towards the central power transformer.
1712102873466.png


Wow, that was way more reply than the topic probably warranted! ;)
 
Thank you, all excellent advice. I think in light of this I will wait and shell out a ""few"" more dollars for a reputable brand from a reputable audio store.
 
I don't have any experience with "modern" tube amps.* Personally, I have no interest in this 1950s technology. :p

I grew-up in the 1970s when there was still some tube stuff around. Most of it was "dull sounding" (rolled-off highs). But somebody gave me a mono McIntosh tube amp and it sounded "perfect" just like any good solid state amp. McIntosh still makes some tube amps and I'm sure they don't have a "tube sound". (It's expensive to build a good tube amp, especially a power amp but cost & price are not problems to McIntosh or their customers.)

If a tube amp has a particular "tube sound" it's going to sound different from another and you'd have to listen for yourself to decide if you like the way that particular amp distorts/colors/alters the sound.

There is also a risk the tube sound will change as the tube ages, and tubes do age. Some tube fans take advantage of this tube variation with "tube rolling" (swapping-in different tubes). But IMO, a good amp would retain its good specs as long as the tubes and other components are within tolerance and the performance wouldn't change or degrade until the tube is at the end of its life..



* Although I'm not a guitar player I know a little about tube guitar amps, but those are a "different story" and they are not supposed to be high-fidelity.
 
Muzishare X7 is certainly one of the better ones. If you go the tube amp route check out Skunky Designs on YouTube, decent honest views and fixes for stuff.
 
I've recently gotten a couple of cheap Chinese tube amps and had good results.
I got a Reisong A12 EL34 amp from Amazon and did Skunkies upgrades. As it came out of the box it sounded TERRIBLE but after a few hours on the bench it sounds quite good.
This experience led me to try a set of 300b Monoblocks from AliExpress. I got the ones with tubes and figured I'd risk a thousand bucks and see.
The amps arrived from Hong Kong quickly and were very well packaged. There was nothing in English included, making me think that they are not intended for the US market but for Hong Kong audiophiles. I built bucking transformers for them as they have 110v primary transformers and my wall is like 124v.
The full set of tubes added $140 to the price but even so the amps sounded good enough that I decided to go for it and got a set of JJ output and drivers tubes and Sovtec rectifiers. The better tubes cost almost as much as the amps but sound fabulous.
I'm using them for the midrange and treble in a bi-amped system so the undersized output transformers are less of a fault. There is something magical about the sound.
I listen to a lot of live classical music and I trust my ears. Real life sounds A LOT like my system!

Pete
 
I am new to this forum but have been involved in audio for six decades. I would like to reach out to the audience concerning tube amps, specifically power amps. My best experience was a Sonic Frontier Power 1, which I had sold and went back to ss. I am now looking at tubes again (I've kept my SF tube preamp) and was looking at some 300B/EL34/EL84 Chinese made amps, all under $1000 which is my budget now. Am I wasting money on these products or does anyone have any positive (or negative) experiences they could share?
Check out the Skunkie Designs Electronics channel on YouTube. She has tested some Chinese tube amps and gives the data and her opinion. She also shows how to modify some of them to make them measure/perform better.
 

Image amps received good reviews back in the days.

I have had Image M9 almost 20 years now (yeah, company has been around a while) and haven't had any problems except with tubes. Older M9, that i have, used EF86 tubes this current one 6922 tubes. Price range isn't that bad. Not sure if they sell outside China but You can always ask.

Neat and clean :)

IMG20240706103847.jpg
 
I don't have any experience with "modern" tube amps.* Personally, I have no interest in this 1950s technology. :p

I grew-up in the 1970s when there was still some tube stuff around. Most of it was "dull sounding" (rolled-off highs). But somebody gave me a mono McIntosh tube amp and it sounded "perfect" just like any good solid state amp. McIntosh still makes some tube amps and I'm sure they don't have a "tube sound". (It's expensive to build a good tube amp, especially a power amp but cost & price are not problems to McIntosh or their customers.)

If a tube amp has a particular "tube sound" it's going to sound different from another and you'd have to listen for yourself to decide if you like the way that particular amp distorts/colors/alters the sound.

There is also a risk the tube sound will change as the tube ages, and tubes do age. Some tube fans take advantage of this tube variation with "tube rolling" (swapping-in different tubes). But IMO, a good amp would retain its good specs as long as the tubes and other components are within tolerance and the performance wouldn't change or degrade until the tube is at the end of its life..



* Although I'm not a guitar player I know a little about tube guitar amps, but those are a "different story" and they are not supposed to be high-fidelity.
That's pretty much my position, along with LPs, and 8 tracks. They will measure sub par to even a decent SS amp and sub $100 streamer or CD player. I don't get it myself, but that unique sound of the gear, and I suspect healthy dose of nostalgia to impact the bias for them, makes some happy, so all good by me! :cool:
 
They will measure sub par to even a decent SS amp and sub $100 streamer or CD player.
My attraction to tubes and vinyl dates back to the birth of the CD era. I had put together an extremely impressive, state-of-the-art CD based system with all Solid State equipment and I thought that I really had something.
Then I read an early issue of The Absolute Sound and decided to see for myself. I was working on Wall Street at the time and found that there were free lunchtime classical music concerts twice a week at Trinity Church. I went to the concerts and then I went home and listened to my stereo and found that it was unrecognizable. The reproduction sounded NOTHING like the real thing.
I went to Stereo Exchange and got some used tube gear -- a Dyna PAS preamp and a Stereo 70 amplifier. I couldn't believe how much more realistic the old, obsolete equipment sounded.
I'm fundamentally a scientist at heart but we need to know what to measure and we clearly don't. For example, one of the aspects of music reproduction that tubes excel at is soundstaging. What measurement correlates with depth and specificity of the soundstage?
So, I don't trust the hype or the marketing, I trust my ears. I keep them calibrated by listening to the real thing a lot. The entire purpose of my stereo system is to transport me to the venue and into the music. The better it is able to do that, the better it is in my book, no matter how it measures.

Pete
 
I am new to this forum but have been involved in audio for six decades. I would like to reach out to the audience concerning tube amps, specifically power amps. My best experience was a Sonic Frontier Power 1, which I had sold and went back to ss. I am now looking at tubes again (I've kept my SF tube preamp) and was looking at some 300B/EL34/EL84 Chinese made amps, all under $1000 which is my budget now. Am I wasting money on these products or does anyone have any positive (or negative) experiences they could share?
Many name brand amps are made in China. Hegel is an expensive Norwegian brand of SS amps- made in China. Prima Luna and Cayin and Black Ice Audio are made in China. Why pay huge price? Why not buy a Chinese brand for a fraction of the cost. Old Chen and Yaqin are good amps. Most all tube amps can be used as a power amp if you turn the volume all the way up, connect a preamp to the aux inputs. Then use the preamp. I remember when people had the same sentiments about amps made in Japan. We all know how that story went. I used to sell gear- Jolida, Black Ice Audio, and vintage gear. I remember comparing a McIntosh receiver to a Pioneer SX-980. The Pioneer was much better. No comparison really. A Yaqin amp is very good. You will never read a negative review of one.
 
Does anyone know of any good quality, good value power amps from China?
Most all seem to be integrated. Thanks.
 
A Yaqin amp is very good. You will never read a negative review of one.

Never? Huh...


"The Yaqin MC-84L made a very positive impression on me with its modest size and super nice industrial design. And reasonable price for such tube products. Performance though, set a new record with respect to how bad it is, taking over the slot for the worst measured amplifier to date. The amp has 42 reviews on Amazon with average of 4.5 stars. Folks must be very tolerant of noise and distortion out there!"
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/yaqin-mc-84l-tube-stereo-amplifier-review.57907/#:~:text=The Yaqin MC-84L made,noise and distortion out there!
 
Does anyone know of any good quality, good value power amps from China?
Most all seem to be integrated. Thanks.
First, there are many misconceptions about Chinese made amps. Many name brand, expensive amps are actually made in China. I bought an Old Chen tube amp for $350 once. Sounded great. Shipped from LA area. Packed very well. Better than Black Ice Audio gear. I know. I used to sell Jolida/Black Ice Audio. An integrated tube amp can be used as a power amp. Just turn the volume all the way up. Plug the preamp into the aux input. Then use the preamp to control things. AliExpress and China-HIFi are ok to deal with. Yaqin amps are very good amps.
 
Thanks. Realise that I could do this but I am a bit of a purist. I don't want to see a volume control tbh. I actually have a VTL ST-85 already, so I am not looking to buy anything currently. Just curious if anyone knows of decent Chinese power amps that might be available. Thanks again.
 
Apropos of (almost) nothing -- my single-ended 2A3 stereo power amp (which is a power amp, not an integrated amp in any reasonable sense of the term) has a volume control (ALPS stereo pot) -- but it's disconnected. Full disclosure, the amp was a DIY project. I currently use it with an actual preamp (interestingly, of the solid state kind).


1735665958120.png



If there is no extra active preamp stage in an inexpensive vacuum tube amp, it should be easy enough to bypass it!
 
Just curious if anyone knows of decent Chinese power amps that might be available. Thanks again.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For every recommendation there probably will be arguments against that recommendation. I review data to reach conclusions as to what is best for my goals, which may not be the same goals as for someone else.
 
Apropos of (almost) nothing -- my single-ended 2A3 stereo power amp (which is a power amp, not an integrated amp in any reasonable sense of the term) has a volume control (ALPS stereo pot) -- but it's disconnected. Full disclosure, the amp was a DIY project. I currently use it with an actual preamp (interestingly, of the solid state kind).


View attachment 417666


If there is no extra active preamp stage in an inexpensive vacuum tube amp, it should be easy enough to bypass it!
Indeed. I have admired the photos of your amplifiers over the years. I do find it curious that the there appear to be no Chinese made power amps available from what I can make out. Any idea how the preamp stages will be implemented? Presumably unlikely to be just a simple pot, or no? Thanks.
 
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