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Chinese or Non Chinese Audio Interface - USB device - DAC with digital inputs, or analog inputs (ADC) routable to ASIO/WASAPI inputs? Any out there?

OK1

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This is for a home studio

I wish to upgrade from some old audio interfaces by EMU and Echo Audio, which are no longer supported with current low latency drivers (WASAPI or ASIO), for Windows 10 and 11. The EMU drivers typically need workarounds @ installation and are broken by each major Windows update, which overwrites the drivers, and I am not sure how long the obsolete Echo Audio drivers will work well on each new Windows update.

The traditional route would be to purchase a typical similarly functioning audio interface from the likes of Audient, Focusrite, M-Audio, Native Instruments, etc, etc. The challenge with these is that the gear is built to a budget. Nowadays what you get is much better from a specs point of view. Decent specs but I no longer wish to buy, as much as I can help it, an integrated device. These audio interfaces, and that also applies to my EMU's and Echo Audio units, are a combination of :

Headphone amp, ADC, DAC, physical knobs, some digital inputs, and maybe some digital outputs, some analog line inputs, some analog line outputs, optionally MIDI, and microphone preamps. The inexpensive gear has usually a few compromises - no line ins that bypass the preamps completely ( I have two stand alone preamps so do not need a preamp - one has digital coaxial and optical outputs also), Their headphone amps are sometimes unsuitable for low impedance headphones, cos they are geared towards the traditional large over the ear dynamic studio headphones - e.g Senny HD 600 or HD 650. The Audient audio interfaces for example have an output impedance of 22 Ohms - too high., for my 17 ohms IEMs., and cos they are built to a budget, their headphone amps are not assured to support a variety of headphones.

The other thing with these all in one audio interfaces, is when you replace them, you have to take out of service, the entire audio interface, which has perfectly usable bits, but that's it gone, kind of like an integrated amp in hifi, or a combined CD player, Preamp, Amplifier - you lose the entire thing.

So my current strategy is separates. I have a Sabaj headphone amp on the way - so I just need a good ADC/DAC device, which connects to USB so I can have audio in and out of Windows, on low latency WASAPI and ASIO, to feed this headphone, and active speakers, and I can feed the analog line ins, from either of my microphone preamps line outs, or feed digital ins from the digital outs of one of my microphone preamps.

Rather than assume I have to go the traditional route, I'm just checking, are there any other options out there. I could go and just buy some RME high end audio device, which would last me a very long time, but these things are expensive - over $1,000 and their headphone amps would be a bit of a duplication, since I already have a headphone amp that I should be perfectly satisfied with, and preamps that are adequate, so I do not need their preamps.

In the good old days, audio interfaces and preamps were separate devices, before the invention of these ALL in ONE's.

I've been highly impressed by the excellently performing Chi-Fi segment, if measurements mean anything. Do they have anything with similarly measuring specs to an RME audio interface (or ideally better than), which cuts out this huge expense of buying an RME. I do not need the fantastic routing capability of an RME, cos I have other virtual I/O drivers to achieve this, using my DAW Reaper, so all my routing of audio on the computer is done within Reaper, just as good as I could have done on an RME device, and probably better, cos the RME is limited to EQ and compression and reverb, while with the power of a full DAW, using all the power of the CPU's, I have an unlimited choice of how to process and route audio - within the computer.

The only advantage of an RME device would be driver support, but for a huge chunk in savings, I'm happy to live with that risk.

I may still end up with a traditional audio interface - low cost budget one, or a high end one, but 1st I'd like to double check, have the Chinese manufacturers or Americans like MODI, got anything - value for money with impressive specs, which I could use? SINAD as close to -120 dB as possible or better, on analog ins and outs, proper management of jitter from and to digital sources - via good quality reclocking/PLL whatever, low latency drivers, and if its possible to route analog ins straight out to analog outs for true zero latency monitoring - that would be a bonus(not compulsory - only nice to have - I think with good low round trip latency on a powerful computer, this requirement is not vital) - The power of the headphone amp, if it comes with one is not important, it will only serve as a backup/duplicate, since I already have a good headphone amp.

Any suggestions please.
 

I list three that bypass the internal mic pre's here. None are super cheap nor expensive. The SPL Crimson has been around so a used one is possible. It has the added advantage of being able to operate completely stand alone without a computer when needed. So even if it stops being supported in software it will perform all its other functions without a PC connection.

Or you could read about the Cosmos ADC which you could DIY pretty easily, and inexpensively with near SOTA results. A few threads on that here on ASR.
 
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Which E-MU do you have?Cause 0204 which I got is rock-solid under Win10 (6.0.1.1 driver) and MAC (don't know about Win11 thought,haven't tested it nor measured it. )
 
There's a chance that when you buy your first RME interface at some point - perhaps in a few years' time - you'll regret not having bought it sooner.

Also:
 
There's a chance that when you buy your first RME interface at some point - perhaps in a few years' time - you'll regret not having bought it sooner.

Also:

This. If you want longevity and good driver support RME is the way to go. At this point I wouldn't trust support / longevity from Chinese brands like Topping which are constantly releasing new products and discontinuing old ones. I still use a RME Fireface 800 which was released in 2004 and has up to date drivers for modern operating systems.

I also think MOTU is a good middle ground between Behringer and RME. Recent interfaces like the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 have very good measured performance with tons of I/O at a decent price. I have a MOTU 896 which was released in 2002 and was supported for 15+ years, but as of Mac OS Catalina (2019) they dropped driver support.

Michael
 
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I've been highly impressed by the excellently performing Chi-Fi segment
Hi OK1,

We know that you don’t mean this in a derogatory manner towards Chinese people. We have a Forum specific Policy to avoid this description. Therefore, we kindly request our Members avoid using this terminology “Chi-fi” as it can have negative connotations for such companies and individuals.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this regard.
 
This is for a home studio

I wish to upgrade from some old audio interfaces by EMU and Echo Audio, which are no longer supported with current low latency drivers (WASAPI or ASIO), for Windows 10 and 11. The EMU drivers typically need workarounds @ installation and are broken by each major Windows update, which overwrites the drivers, and I am not sure how long the obsolete Echo Audio drivers will work well on each new Windows update.

The traditional route would be to purchase a typical similarly functioning audio interface from the likes of Audient, Focusrite, M-Audio, Native Instruments, etc, etc. The challenge with these is that the gear is built to a budget. Nowadays what you get is much better from a specs point of view. Decent specs but I no longer wish to buy, as much as I can help it, an integrated device. These audio interfaces, and that also applies to my EMU's and Echo Audio units, are a combination of :

Headphone amp, ADC, DAC, physical knobs, some digital inputs, and maybe some digital outputs, some analog line inputs, some analog line outputs, optionally MIDI, and microphone preamps. The inexpensive gear has usually a few compromises - no line ins that bypass the preamps completely ( I have two stand alone preamps so do not need a preamp - one has digital coaxial and optical outputs also), Their headphone amps are sometimes unsuitable for low impedance headphones, cos they are geared towards the traditional large over the ear dynamic studio headphones - e.g Senny HD 600 or HD 650. The Audient audio interfaces for example have an output impedance of 22 Ohms - too high., for my 17 ohms IEMs., and cos they are built to a budget, their headphone amps are not assured to support a variety of headphones.

The other thing with these all in one audio interfaces, is when you replace them, you have to take out of service, the entire audio interface, which has perfectly usable bits, but that's it gone, kind of like an integrated amp in hifi, or a combined CD player, Preamp, Amplifier - you lose the entire thing.

So my current strategy is separates. I have a Sabaj headphone amp on the way - so I just need a good ADC/DAC device, which connects to USB so I can have audio in and out of Windows, on low latency WASAPI and ASIO, to feed this headphone, and active speakers, and I can feed the analog line ins, from either of my microphone preamps line outs, or feed digital ins from the digital outs of one of my microphone preamps.

Rather than assume I have to go the traditional route, I'm just checking, are there any other options out there. I could go and just buy some RME high end audio device, which would last me a very long time, but these things are expensive - over $1,000 and their headphone amps would be a bit of a duplication, since I already have a headphone amp that I should be perfectly satisfied with, and preamps that are adequate, so I do not need their preamps.

In the good old days, audio interfaces and preamps were separate devices, before the invention of these ALL in ONE's.

I've been highly impressed by the excellently performing Chi-Fi segment, if measurements mean anything. Do they have anything with similarly measuring specs to an RME audio interface (or ideally better than), which cuts out this huge expense of buying an RME. I do not need the fantastic routing capability of an RME, cos I have other virtual I/O drivers to achieve this, using my DAW Reaper, so all my routing of audio on the computer is done within Reaper, just as good as I could have done on an RME device, and probably better, cos the RME is limited to EQ and compression and reverb, while with the power of a full DAW, using all the power of the CPU's, I have an unlimited choice of how to process and route audio - within the computer.

The only advantage of an RME device would be driver support, but for a huge chunk in savings, I'm happy to live with that risk.

I may still end up with a traditional audio interface - low cost budget one, or a high end one, but 1st I'd like to double check, have the Chinese manufacturers or Americans like MODI, got anything - value for money with impressive specs, which I could use? SINAD as close to -120 dB as possible or better, on analog ins and outs, proper management of jitter from and to digital sources - via good quality reclocking/PLL whatever, low latency drivers, and if its possible to route analog ins straight out to analog outs for true zero latency monitoring - that would be a bonus(not compulsory - only nice to have - I think with good low round trip latency on a powerful computer, this requirement is not vital) - The power of the headphone amp, if it comes with one is not important, it will only serve as a backup/duplicate, since I already have a good headphone amp.

Any suggestions please.
Why don't you just get an RME ADI-2 FS?
A very proven device and available used for €300-500.
 
Why don't you just get an RME ADI-2 FS?
A very proven device and available used for €300-500.
I'll think about this. Tempting idea. Thanks. Owning an RME would be like heaven, never owned one. Been reading about them for over two decades.
 
Hi OK1,

We know that you don’t mean this in a derogatory manner towards Chinese people. We have a Forum specific Policy to avoid this description. Therefore, we kindly request our Members avoid using this terminology “Chi-fi” as it can have negative connotations for such companies and individuals.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this regard.
Truly sorry to have violated any forum rules. Obviously was not aware of this. Noted and thanks, I'll change the title, to something definitely inoffensive, as per your forum rules.
 
Hi OK1,

We know that you don’t mean this in a derogatory manner towards Chinese people. We have a Forum specific Policy to avoid this description. Therefore, we kindly request our Members avoid using this terminology “Chi-fi” as it can have negative connotations for such companies and individuals.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this regard.
I did try to edit the title, but it seems I'm too late. If you could delete the 1st part of the thread title, as an admin, or grant me permission to edit for another day or two, that would be great. What needs to be deleted is the prefix "ChiFi or Non ChiFi Audio Interface", which I think would definitely improve the thread title. If I had edit permissions restored, I would also revise the 1st post, accordingly.

I obviously meant no offense, in any way, these terms are used all over the web, and this is the 1st time, it has been drawn to my attention, that it could be derogatory.
 
I did try to edit the title, but it seems I'm too late. If you could delete the 1st part of the thread title, as an admin, or grant me permission to edit for another day or two, that would be great. What needs to be deleted is the prefix "ChiFi or Non ChiFi Audio Interface", which I think would definitely improve the thread title. If I had edit permissions restored, I would also revise the 1st post, accordingly.

I obviously meant no offense, in any way, these terms are used all over the web, and this is the 1st time, it has been drawn to my attention, that it could be derogatory.
I don’t know how on earth I missed that. My bad :facepalm:. It is now corrected. Thanks for the reminder.
 
these terms are used all over the web, and this is the 1st time, it has been drawn to my attention, that it could be derogatory.
There was no shortage of them awhile back and now it weeds out the baddies of the baddies. :D
 
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I don’t know how on earth I missed that. My bad :facepalm:. It is now corrected. Thanks for the reminder.
Highly appreciate your edit of the title. Thanks.
 
Which E-MU do you have?Cause 0204 which I got is rock-solid under Win10 (6.0.1.1 driver) and MAC (don't know about Win11 thought,haven't tested it nor measured it. )

1st huge thanks to everyone, who has responded. Took me a while to get back here, cos I was reading the thresholds of audibility info and getting to understand the device measurements better.

I have two EMU's and one Echo Audio. EMU 1212M PCI-E, and EMU 0404 USB + Echo Audio Layla 3G (PCI-E), an Audient Mico preamp, and now just got a Sabaj A20h headphone amp. And an Apple dongle US version. Speakers are Alesis M1 Actives. Headphones are AKG K702 + a JVC cheapie 17 ohm low impedance IEM thing + a similar Sony IEM cheapie.

The Layla has headphone amps and preamps which the EMU 1212M does not have. Bought the EMU 0404 USB to be able to have a proper audio interface when using laptops, instead of the onboard one.

But the lack of preamps on the EMU 1212M is now resolved cos I have a very good clean sounding external preamp - the Audient Mico, which also has digital outs, and if I need headphones, with the 1212M, the Sabaj A20h is there, or I could send the output of the 1212M into the EMU 0404 USB - in standalone mode not connected to USB, and monitor on headphones from the EMU0404 USB.

The EMU 0404 USB has been my main audio interface, for a long while, like 6 years, only possible issue would be not too powerful headphones, but I've solved that now - the Sabaj A20h headphone amplifier, can be used alongside any of these audio interfaces to assure my headphone needs are covered 100%.

I did have good drivers for the EMU's at last check, albeit with some workarounds if I remember rightly, for Windows 10, and I have a gut feeling those of us with these devices, should be fine for the lifetime of Windows 10, for now.

The challenge with a site like AudioScienceReview, is you read about these stunning specs, and develop FOMO (fear of missing out), Oh my God, my audio interface is from the middle ages syndrome. I have one good example - A Behringer mixer I bought in 1998, which is still with me, I hardly ever used it, and when I wanted to provide some headphone amplification for a live musician, I brought it out and tried it at home - for 1998 not bad, but clearly nowhere as clean as the EMU 0404 USB, so it's gone back into retirement. You get that same feeling when you read about devices with Dynamic Range/SNR's over 130dB, some over 140dB, and wow you do feel ancient, with the kind of gear I have.

Having considered some of the responses on this thread, which was like me seeking to recheck my assertions, I've had some time to think and study a bit more.

Recently I've had a good read of one of the excellent audibility threshold threads here, and also the explanation of many of the measurements, by Amir. And for what I do, professionally, at the level at which I do it, in mixing and mastering, I now think I'm fine, I could use any of my Prosumer audio interfaces, to get fantastic results, i.e my issue should NOT be, the quality of these audio interfaces, the 1212M hits Signal to Noise (or Dynamic Range) of 120dB(or -120dB - sometimes confused which is the proper sign for these things), and the others are over 110 dB(with exception of the Apple dongle, which is still not far off 110dB) . I conclude, these should be enough for any casual or critical listening, or mixing and mastering., and recording. the Layla preamps are specced with an EIN of 130, which is right up there with any of the best measuring preamps on an audio interface costing below $1,000 in today's market. Looking into the Layla manual, it is the only audio interface in over 25 years of my interest in audio gear, which has a spec for linearity. The only one !!, so those who made these devices, were pretty decent about their intentions - and transparent in their communication to the user, never understood what this was, until I saw Amir's tests. I'm should remain thankful and satisfied with the gear I already have if I have understood the thresholds properly.

In conclusion, my revised thinking, only reason to buy anything in this category, would be gearlust, not need. I already have too much. These are solidly built pieces of kit, still working perfectly in some cases over 20 years after I bought them, testament to excellent design. So I'll continue using them until there is no more driver support, for them in Windows.

What was prompting me to push for a modern USB based solution was the opportunity to use it with a laptop, but this is counterintuitive cos laptops run out of CPU steam, much earlier than any desktop - when using Intel desktop or mobile CPUs. (unless one is on Apple Silicon, where the desktop and laptops use identical CPU's) , so if I'm going to be on a desktop anyway, to get maximum CPU resource, I do NOT need a more modern USB audio interface, when I already have perfectly suitable PCI based options..

Laptop Upgrade - For casual listening on my laptop - the Apple dongle is more than good enough for listening to Youtube and Spotify. Gearlust may cause me to add one of the dongles which have measured really well here on ASR, e.g one of the Tempotecs or Hidizs, but that's not a critical need.

Desktop Upgrade - And should I need to upgrade in the future, when these audio interfaces, no longer have any driver support on Windows, my upgrade path would be on the desktop - an RME PCI-E card - expensive, but it does not get any better than this. Too many reasons to list here. I could buy a used old model to save money, or the latest greatest of whatever they have at that time. Today's top SOTA RME PCI-e interface today, with analog outputs, I discovered, has headphone amps so good, one does not need anything else. !- headphone amp right on the PCI-e card. Amazing.

The other thing that has made me rethink is - I have these products, some like the EMU1212M acquired in the early 2000's (2003 or 4 IIRC), still working in perfect condition, yet I hear all these anecdotes of failed or buggy SMSL/Topping/FiiO(and other manufacturers) devices, and after my having bought three Samsung dongles which were all fake, I have cold feet about buying anything similar- dongles, or modern desktop hi-fi. I need my gear to NOT fail, cos they are tools. I should not need to pay them any extra attention. Having paid for them, they should just work. Horror stories about having to ship things back, possibly to China, at my own cost - for warranty enforcement - definitely not my cup of tea.

Thanks everyone. Highly appreciated.
 

I list three that bypass the internal mic pre's here. None are super cheap nor expensive. The SPL Crimson has been around so a used one is possible. It has the added advantage of being able to operate completely stand alone without a computer when needed. So even if it stops being supported in software it will perform all its other functions without a PC connection.

Or you could read about the Cosmos ADC which you could DIY pretty easily, and inexpensively with near SOTA results. A few threads on that here on ASR.
Should I ever need a USB audio interface, for portability, I'll take a good look at these. Thank you.
 
This. If you want longevity and good driver support RME is the way to go. At this point I wouldn't trust support / longevity from Chinese brands like Topping which are constantly releasing new products and discontinuing old ones. I still use a RME Fireface 800 which was released in 2004 and has up to date drivers for modern operating systems.

I also think MOTU is a good middle ground between the Behringer and RME. Recent interfaces like the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 have very good measured performance with tons of I/O at a decent price. I have a MOTU 896 which was released in 2002 and was supported for 15+ years, but as of Mac OS Catalina (2019) they dropped driver support.

Michael
Thank you. You got me thinking, more objectively. There are a couple of things in RME's favour :

1. Efficient drivers, which reduce CPU utilisation. Not important for many users, but if one is running lots of plugins and reaching the limits of whatever device one is using, can come in handy.
2. Driver updates, for many many years. Definitely not something to be taken for granted.
3. Low latency - usually best in class.
4. Windows and Mac support - so if one switches platforms, which I may do one day, or run both Windows and Mac workstations
5. They do not change models as often (unless forced to e.g by recent shortages in the supply chain, where they had to move to a different manufacturers converters)m.
6. Pretty much one of the audio industry standards
7. Their routing app is nice to have, avoids me using cludge solutions like virtual ASIO drivers, to route Windows Audio into my DAW.
8. Definitely well manufactured, with decent support/replacement if one received a dud item, with issues.
9. Lots of options, via USB 2/3, and PCI-e, as well as Thunderbolt. The ideal for me would be having everything separate, similar to Hi-Fi separates. Their PCIe-HDSP Aio (just checked, they now have a Pro model with even higher specs + Pro level headphone) would be a serious upgrade in terms of stability and future proofing - a basic decent spec audio interface, which has enough expansion options to cater for anything a home studio would need, should I wish for more esoteric converters, in the future.

So much to think about. So much. You got me really thinking, in the interim, as I am not doing any recording, I could get by with a respectable dongle that measures well, and does not cost the earth - e.g Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. And take my time to save up for an RME, as the primary interface. In the interim, I'll see how far my EMU and Echo Audio Interfaces can still continue to be in use, with their obsolete drivers, which still work (albeit no longer supported with upgrades).

So that's the plan, in the interim, I make do with my retinue of an Apple dongle for casual listening, see how far my EMU and Echo Audio audio interfaces will remain working on Windows, pair these with the Sabaj A20h which arrived yesterday, should I ever need more headphone oomph. When the EMU and Echo Audio ever go to the audio interface grave, cos of lack of driver support in Windows, buy an RME PCI-e interface for my desktop - which is where most of the mixing and mastering is done.

Thanks
 
Thank you. You got me thinking, more objectively. There are a couple of things in RME's favour :

1. Efficient drivers, which reduce CPU utilisation. Not important for many users, but if one is running lots of plugins and reaching the limits of whatever device one is using, can come in handy.
2. Driver updates, for many many years. Definitely not something to be taken for granted.
3. Low latency - usually best in class.
4. Windows and Mac support - so if one switches platforms, which I may do one day, or run both Windows and Mac workstations
5. They do not change models as often (unless forced to e.g by recent shortages in the supply chain, where they had to move to a different manufacturers converters)m.
6. Pretty much one of the audio industry standards
7. Their routing app is nice to have, avoids me using cludge solutions like virtual ASIO drivers, to route Windows Audio into my DAW.
8. Definitely well manufactured, with decent support/replacement if one received a dud item, with issues.
9. Lots of options, via USB 2/3, and PCI-e, as well as Thunderbolt. The ideal for me would be having everything separate, similar to Hi-Fi separates. Their PCIe-HDSP Aio (just checked, they now have a Pro model with even higher specs + Pro level headphone) would be a serious upgrade in terms of stability and future proofing - a basic decent spec audio interface, which has enough expansion options to cater for anything a home studio would need, should I wish for more esoteric converters, in the future.

So much to think about. So much. You got me really thinking, in the interim, as I am not doing any recording, I could get by with a respectable dongle that measures well, and does not cost the earth - e.g Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. And take my time to save up for an RME, as the primary interface. In the interim, I'll see how far my EMU and Echo Audio Interfaces can still continue to be in use, with their obsolete drivers, which still work (albeit no longer supported with upgrades).

So that's the plan, in the interim, I make do with my retinue of an Apple dongle for casual listening, see how far my EMU and Echo Audio audio interfaces will remain working on Windows, pair these with the Sabaj A20h which arrived yesterday, should I ever need more headphone oomph. When the EMU and Echo Audio ever go to the audio interface grave, cos of lack of driver support in Windows, buy an RME PCI-e interface for my desktop - which is where most of the mixing and mastering is done.

Thanks
I think this is a sensible approach... I still think fondly on my last bits of Echo gear... not only was the SQ top notch, but the (all important) drivers were among the most stable at the time. I had an Alesis interface for about 6 days before sending it back in favor of another Echo unit for that very reason. I say hang on to it as long as it keeps working for your use case.

If you want more gear I have a Mackie (built by Echo) firewire interface that you can get working with a firewire expansion card... :D ... just can't justify running it anymore. But I am sure it sounds as good as ever. Would let it go for a song... :)
 
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I think this is a sensible approach... I still think fondly on my last bits of Echo gear... not only was the SQ top notch, but the (all important) drivers were among the most stable at the time. I had an Alesis interface for about 6 days before sending it back in favor of another Echo unit for that very reason. I say hang on to it as long as it keeps working for your use case.

If you want more gear I have a Mackie (built by Echo) firewire interface that you can get working with a firewire expansion card... :D ... just can't justify running it anymore. But I am sure it sounds as good as ever. Would let it go for a song... :)
Yeah firewire was once a thing. the version of the emu1212M I have, also has a firewire interface - not that I ever used it, but it's there and I think I recall it being registered in Windows. But never heard anyone talk about it.

I don't think they make these products nowadays like they used to, in terms of build and components. Yes there were some EMU's which needed recapping (new capacitors) after a few years, but mine seem fine. When I hear of Audient, Focusrite, Behringer and other audio interfaces going bad, especially after warranty is over, I wonder - am I just lucky or the budget end of things is no longer what it used to be. Wish these manufacturers would open source their drivers, when they no longer wish to support the new operating systems.
 
Yeah firewire was once a thing. the version of the emu1212M I have, also has a firewire interface - not that I ever used it, but it's there and I think I recall it being registered in Windows. But never heard anyone talk about it.

I don't think they make these products nowadays like they used to, in terms of build and components. Yes there were some EMU's which needed recapping (new capacitors) after a few years, but mine seem fine. When I hear of Audient, Focusrite, Behringer and other audio interfaces going bad, especially after warranty is over, I wonder - am I just lucky or the budget end of things is no longer what it used to be. Wish these manufacturers would open source their drivers, when they no longer wish to support the new operating systems.
Firewire was a widely used interface in the Mac world, including for audio. It was never talked about much because it just worked.
 
am I just lucky or the budget end of things is no longer what it used to be.
I think there is probably some survivorship bias that goes into that perception. The junk (e.g. that Alesis) breaks fast or is sold and forgotten, meanwhile the good stuff lasts and creates a perception that old stuff was built better, by mere fact of continued existence. Then we compare the best of the old to the average of the new, and the new looks bad in comparison.

I also think this is why everyone always says (no matter the year or their age) that music used to be better. In fact, they were always churning out mountains of crap, but nobody listens to the crap 40 years later. We compare the best of the '60s to the average of today, and today looks like crap in that comparison. :)

Wish these manufacturers would open source their drivers, when they no longer wish to support the new operating systems.

This I could not agree with more.
 
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