Chinese Hi-Fi Compilation: In-Ear and Over-Ear Headphones (-2023)

[Robbo99999]

Wow, that's a lot of data, useful though and a fine undertaking! Obviously some stuff like "Mixing Space Graphs" can be taken with a pinch of salt.

EDIT: for over ear headphones I can't imagine the Harman 2013 Curve without bass boost would be good to listen to. Harman 2013 Curve sounds ok, but can't imagine then removing the bass boost from it. For perspective the Harman 2018 Curve which is what Amir and Oratory use has even more bass boost than Harman 2013 and a bit more treble than Harman 2013 too - I like the sound of Harman 2018 and Harman 2013 is ok, but Harman 2013 without the bass boost no way for me & I'd be surprised if many like it so I find that a strange choice as a target for over ear headphones in the graphs here, that's my take on that particular point. (And from the Harman work it's definitely not how anechoic flat speakers would sound in a room, there would be more bass, and it's actually the 2013 Harman Curve including it's bass boost that happens to/would equal an actual measured derivation of anechoic flat speakers in the Harman room.)

 

[Kaiju]

Thank you for your effort.

 

[beefkabob]

This is amazing, and the new logo is far less embarrassing.

Maybe there's a data person who can process this? Right now, it's just too much.

 

[Cuckoo Studio]

Wow, that's a lot of data, useful though and a fine undertaking! Obviously some stuff like "Mixing Space Graphs" can be taken with a pinch of salt.

EDIT: for over ear headphones I can't imagine the Harman 2013 Curve without bass boost would be good to listen to. Harman 2013 Curve sounds ok, but can't imagine then removing the bass boost from it. For perspective the Harman 2018 Curve which is what Amir and Oratory use has even more bass boost than Harman 2013 and a bit more treble than Harman 2013 too - I like the sound of Harman 2018 and Harman 2013 is ok, but Harman 2013 without the bass boost no way for me & I'd be surprised if many like it so I find that a strange choice as a target for over ear headphones in the graphs here, that's my take on that particular point. (And from the Harman work it's definitely not how anechoic flat speakers would sound in a room, there would be more bass, and it's actually the 2013 Harman Curve including it's bass boost that happens to/would equal an actual measured derivation of anechoic flat speakers in the Harman room.)

Yes, I believe this hasn’t been an issue with in-ear headphones because their comparison is based on the Harman 2018 target with low-frequency gain. However, with over-ear headphones, especially open-back designs, I sometimes find myself somewhat confused, as the low end of some Harman target with bass seems to feel too much in actual listening. This could be due to data discrepancies caused by fitting leaks on artificial ears or other factors. I think I’m still researching and confirming this point and might make some slight adjustments in the future, such as selecting an appropriate version of the low-frequency gain target curve for comparison.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yes, I believe this hasn’t been an issue with in-ear headphones because their comparison is based on the Harman 2018 target with low-frequency gain. However, with over-ear headphones, especially open-back designs, I sometimes find myself somewhat confused, as the low end of some Harman target with bass seems to feel too much in actual listening. This could be due to data discrepancies caused by fitting leaks on artificial ears or other factors. I think I’m still researching and confirming this point and might make some slight adjustments in the future, such as selecting an appropriate version of the low-frequency gain target curve for comparison.

Oratory normally shows best case bass for his published measurements, so it's assuming a perfect seal pretty much. If you're finding that your various headphones don't seal easily on your measurement rig then as you pointed out that could be a reason. I suppose the idea is that headphones can seal more reliably on real heads vs measurement fixtures, but it depends which fixtures & which real heads......and maybe it's because a user will move the headphone around on their head to ensure a seal for the bass, particularly on closed back headphones. I generally use Oratory measurements and EQ to Harman 2018, I might even use sometimes a dB more bass, but for some headphones I have to take generally more drastic action on the tweaking - easiest way to explain it is unit to unit variation. But, at no point using Oratory measurements have I thought I want to be listening with no bass shelf to the target, so that's something consistent from my point of view, which is why I pointed out your lack of bass shelf for the over ear target you're using. I mean it doesn't matter because it's your choice, but I wanted to point it out.

 

[Cuckoo Studio]

Oratory 通常显示其公布的测量结果中最佳的低音，因此它假设密封性几乎完美。如果您发现各种耳机在测量装置上不易密封，那么正如您所指出的那样，这可能是一个原因。我想这个想法是耳机在真实头部上比测量装置密封得更可靠，但这取决于哪些装置和哪些真实头部......也许是因为用户会在头上移动耳机以确保低音的密封，特别是在封闭式耳机上。我通常使用 Oratory 测量和 Harman 2018 的 EQ，我有时甚至可能会使用更多 dB 的低音，但对于某些耳机，我必须采取更激烈的调整措施 - 最简单的解释方法是单位之间的变化。但是，在使用 Oratory 测量时，我从来没有想过我想在没有低音架的情况下聆听目标，所以从我的角度来看这是一致的事情，这就是为什么我指出你使用的耳罩式目标缺乏低音架。我的意思是这并不重要因为这是你的选择，但我想指出这一点。

It’s great that you brought this up, as it’s something I’ve been pondering as well. I just tried comparing the HD600 again, compensated to both the Harman 2013 target without low-frequency gain and the version with low-frequency gain. I still feel that the shelving boost in the low end makes it overly boomy. However, we all know that the HD600 has a high-impedance characteristic in the low frequencies, along with noticeable harmonic coloration, which might be one of the reasons for the excessive low end. Similarly, I sometimes find it easier to accept the shelving boost in the low frequencies with electrostatic headphones. There seems to be something more intriguing going on here.

 

[Robbo99999]

It’s great that you brought this up, as it’s something I’ve been pondering as well. I just tried comparing the HD600 again, compensated to both the Harman 2013 target without low-frequency gain and the version with low-frequency gain. I still feel that the shelving boost in the low end makes it overly boomy. However, we all know that the HD600 has a high-impedance characteristic in the low frequencies, along with noticeable harmonic coloration, which might be one of the reasons for the excessive low end. Similarly, I sometimes find it easier to accept the shelving boost in the low frequencies with electrostatic headphones. There seems to be something more intriguing going on here.

I've got the HD600 too as one of my headphones, and actually that's the only headphone I don't run Harman bass on. In fact I rarely use that headphone, and in the time that I did use it I determined that I liked the sound of it best without any EQ except for a 3dB Low Shelf at around 70Hz if I remember rightly, so I too see the HD600 as a bit of an outlier to the norm of how I like to tune headphones.

 

[Cuckoo Studio]

我也有一款 HD600 耳机，实际上这是我唯一一款不带 Harman 低音的耳机。事实上我很少使用这款耳机，而且在我使用它的时候，我确定我最喜欢没有任何 EQ 的声音，除了 70Hz 左右的 3dB Low Shelf（如果我没记错的话），所以我也认为 HD600 与我喜欢的耳机调音方式有点不同。

Yes! That’s exactly what I’m trying to convey. No matter how other headphones respond to the same adjustments, the HD600 always ends up feeling like it has more bass after the same modifications.

 

[Cuckoo Studio]

I've got the HD600 too as one of my headphones, and actually that's the only headphone I don't run Harman bass on. In fact I rarely use that headphone, and in the time that I did use it I determined that I liked the sound of it best without any EQ except for a 3dB Low Shelf at around 70Hz if I remember rightly, so I too see the HD600 as a bit of an outlier to the norm of how I like to tune headphones.

I’ve also noticed something during my actual measurement comparisons: under near-flat speaker conditions, the Harman 2013 target without low-frequency gain, when measured on my artificial ear, seems to align more closely with the L+R measurement results rather than individual L or R measurements. Additionally, some other variables that might limit our ability to draw conclusions include the fact that low frequencies in a room have longer reverberation times, making the actual listening experience feel more diffuse, while headphones provide a tighter, more solid sensation, which might make the low end seem excessive. Also, the ear pads might transmit slight vibrations to the head—I’m not sure if this also contributes to the perception of more bass. However, these are just some conjectures and hypotheses. I think I need more time to rule out these factors.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yes! That’s exactly what I’m trying to convey. No matter how other headphones respond to the same adjustments, the HD600 always ends up feeling like it has more bass after the same modifications.

I remember describing the bass in HD600 to be "woolly" and undefined when boosted to Harman levels and at the time I attributed it to distortion but I can't be sure that's the actual reason. I remember having the impression that the HD600 does a lot right in the mids and in vocals and was just really well tailored in that area, and if I remember rightly when upping the bass then you start obscuring some of those positives with that headphone. So I think the reasons I ended up with just a +3dB Low Shelf at 70Hz was to not overly mask those positives I described (so it still sounded like an HD600 but just with subtle more subbass) whilst also staying away from woolly undefined bass. All of my other headphones I feel that they can accept the more bass boost of the Harman 2018 curve, and they end up sounding good once using a full Harman EQ. So HD600 was just an outlier for me.

I’ve also noticed something during my actual measurement comparisons: under near-flat speaker conditions, the Harman 2013 target without low-frequency gain, when measured on my artificial ear, seems to align more closely with the L+R measurement results rather than individual L or R measurements. Additionally, some other variables that might limit our ability to draw conclusions include the fact that low frequencies in a room have longer reverberation times, making the actual listening experience feel more diffuse, while headphones provide a tighter, more solid sensation, which might make the low end seem excessive. Also, the ear pads might transmit slight vibrations to the head—I’m not sure if this also contributes to the perception of more bass. However, these are just some conjectures and hypotheses. I think I need more time to rule out these factors.
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I don't know, but the Harman Research made sense to me and the application of their research in the form Headphone Harman EQ's to 2018 Curve have worked for me by & large. The one exception is just that HD600 tuning I ended up at which was a "lucky" & "unusual" combination of a headphone that was already good to very good at stock in most tonal areas combined with a seemingly poor ability to reproduce detailed bass with EQ. (Just out of curiosity, the only reason I don't use the HD600 hardly ever is because of the issues with the bass and the imaging/soundstage is not good, otherwise it can do a lot right.)