Gibson Brands files Chapter 11
http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/gi...-chapter-11-bankruptcy-protection-1202793510/
http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/gi...-chapter-11-bankruptcy-protection-1202793510/
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Chinese company TCL to own Pioneer and Onkyo Brands Outside Japan!
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
They have been having trouble for a while....
There have been lots of articles about mis-steps at Gibson the past few years that led to this. Sad day; hope they can restructure and return, hopefully better focused.
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Whatever are the future TCL products branded Onkyo/Pioneer, it is a sad period for the consumer audio industry.
What AVR brands will be left with well designed products?
I was close to buy my first Onkyo/Pioneer AVR last year.
It will not be the case any more.
What AVR brands will be left with well designed products?
I was close to buy my first Onkyo/Pioneer AVR last year.
It will not be the case any more.
I'm not actually sure how it's handled within and outside of Japan. It could be that the engineering is still handled by pioneer/onkyo Japan while TCL handles the 'overseas' marketing and distribution.
https://www.yamaha.com/en/products_services/
They have their fingers in a lot of different pies and industries, don't think they're in any danger unlike pioneer/onkyo.
Thank-god
So, what is the current situation with Pioneer and Onkyo, technical death or coma?
wiki updates are sparse:
"March 2019: Pioneer delists from the Tokyo Stock Exchange to focus on debt restructuring, after the bailout was accepted following an extraordinary shareholder meeting.[ "
"In the summer of 2020, major US retailers Amazon and Best Buy discontinued sales of Onkyo products. A call to Onkyo USA's customer service line indicated the number is no longer in service. Distribution of Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra and Elite products has changed hands from Onkyo USA to 11 Trading Company. "
wiki updates are sparse:
"March 2019: Pioneer delists from the Tokyo Stock Exchange to focus on debt restructuring, after the bailout was accepted following an extraordinary shareholder meeting.[ "
"In the summer of 2020, major US retailers Amazon and Best Buy discontinued sales of Onkyo products. A call to Onkyo USA's customer service line indicated the number is no longer in service. Distribution of Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra and Elite products has changed hands from Onkyo USA to 11 Trading Company. "
Some analogy, why Amir's skepticism was legitimate:
Sharp wiki:
After years of huge losses in its overseas TV business, Sharp sold its Mexico TV factory to Chinese electronics manufacturer Hisense for $23.7 million in July 2015. The sale includes rights to use the Sharp brand name and all its channel resources in North and South America, except Brazil. This meant that Sharp has exited the TV market in the Americas (except Brazil).[27]
In June 2017, Sharp sued its Chinese licensee Hisense for damaging the reputation of its brand, seeking an exit from its licensing agreement. Sharp accused the company of producing "shoddily manufactured" televisions under the Sharp name, including products they believed were in violation of U.S. safety standards for electromagnetic radiation, and the subject of deceptive advertising over their quality. Hisense denied that it engaged in these practices, and stated that it planned to defend itself in court and "will continue to manufacture and sell quality televisions under the Sharp licensed brands."[39][40] In February 2018, Sharp dropped the lawsuit against Hisense.[41] In 2019 Sharp re-acquired its own brand for use on TV's in the US market.[42]
Sharp wiki:
After years of huge losses in its overseas TV business, Sharp sold its Mexico TV factory to Chinese electronics manufacturer Hisense for $23.7 million in July 2015. The sale includes rights to use the Sharp brand name and all its channel resources in North and South America, except Brazil. This meant that Sharp has exited the TV market in the Americas (except Brazil).[27]
In June 2017, Sharp sued its Chinese licensee Hisense for damaging the reputation of its brand, seeking an exit from its licensing agreement. Sharp accused the company of producing "shoddily manufactured" televisions under the Sharp name, including products they believed were in violation of U.S. safety standards for electromagnetic radiation, and the subject of deceptive advertising over their quality. Hisense denied that it engaged in these practices, and stated that it planned to defend itself in court and "will continue to manufacture and sell quality televisions under the Sharp licensed brands."[39][40] In February 2018, Sharp dropped the lawsuit against Hisense.[41] In 2019 Sharp re-acquired its own brand for use on TV's in the US market.[42]
RealityCheck18
Member
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- 233
Interesting,
My first reciever was a Pioneer my brothers gave me, I fixed the thing and used it for many years. First cassette deck and AVR was Onkyo and the cassette deck still works after 34 years. When the Onkyo AVR bit the dust, I looked at the chaos going on in the AVR world with Marantz, Denon, Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Pioneer and so on not being what they were in the 1990's. Hmmmm, so I went with Yamaha because they own the manufacturing plant and their stuff is screwed together by Yamaha employees. Figure if Yamaha can make pro gear, motorcycles, robots, car engines and musical instruments they should not screw up a receiver too bad. The reliability ratings were at the top, the thing ran cool and I knew Yamaha would be around before the warranty was up.
Fast forward a few years, at least the market is starting to stabilize. Sure, TCL bought them out but TCL also has been improving their product so not a bad thing. I'd rather them being purchased by a company that wants to and is improving their product VS a company that only cares about profits, market share and stock price.
From what I recall, Pioneer Professional was spun off a few years ago as Pioneer Pro dominates the global club mixer/club products arena. Those mixers used in EDM festivals, night clubs and concerts cost many thousands of dollars and handle abuse far higher than any consumer product ever will. I believe (but not sure) that TAD was spun off as a professional brand--could be wrong but it might already be owned by someone else. If it makes you feel better, Pioneer Pro is still kicking butt in the club mixer market although it has Denon Professional biting at it's heels. Denon Professional is NOT Denon...they got spun off also and is owned by somebody else. Me thinks Marantz Pro also got spun off--my crystal ball is cloudy on that one.
So if you want stability, get a Yamaha or Sony as they remain the same. Well, the problem with Sony is they can go world class IF they want to. They have the wonderous ability to make great gear or proprietary crap.... because Sony! I do know that Sony is closing their audio gear factories in Brazil and Malaysia which is not a very good sign... Yamaha's new AVRs are better than what they replaced so they seem to want to do battle with Sound United--a bright spot it seems.
I'd rather TCL buy out Onkyo/Pioneer than to see those brands go away. Now that Sony seems to be backing away from audio, the odds that two companies at the top taking a rest strongly increases. At least with TCL Onkyo/Pioneer, they know if they take a rest that TCL might see it as an opportunity to innovate and kick some butts. Samsung/Harman is the dark horse, they can easily jump in with Harman Kardon and crush Sound United at will. After all, if Samsung so chooses it can make it's own parts, processors and electronic bits in it's own foundries and really push things forward. Sound United is more an assembler and depends on parts avialable off-the-shelf. It has been over 4 years since Samsung bought out Harman, they really don't seem all that interested in AVRs as smart speakers, studio monitors, soundbars and car audio/nav is a much higher profit area. Samsung does have some interesting tech, they have a processor that predicts increasing distortion, frequency response issues and power compression and will change the signal in real time to prevent that from happening. Oddly enough, their beta testing of that tech was used in a sound bar but it does have opportunities. You can bet that JBL Professional will be using that once it becomes viable for large scale arena, pro sound and theater systems--it will trickle down. Right now, the pro sound market is toast although that does allow more R&D time.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the last I knew the top 3 TV manufacturers were Samsung, LG and TCL. For the most part, consumers are not very familiar with Onkyo but they do know Pioneer. Not sure what TCL will do with the brands, they will probably use them for soundbars and the like for their TVs--start with what you know. Hopefully they throw some money at them to move product and innovate but I'm not concerned. There is a site called ASR that will strap the gear down, plug it and and letter rip!
Could be worse..AudioQuest could of bought them! Ack!
My first reciever was a Pioneer my brothers gave me, I fixed the thing and used it for many years. First cassette deck and AVR was Onkyo and the cassette deck still works after 34 years. When the Onkyo AVR bit the dust, I looked at the chaos going on in the AVR world with Marantz, Denon, Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Pioneer and so on not being what they were in the 1990's. Hmmmm, so I went with Yamaha because they own the manufacturing plant and their stuff is screwed together by Yamaha employees. Figure if Yamaha can make pro gear, motorcycles, robots, car engines and musical instruments they should not screw up a receiver too bad. The reliability ratings were at the top, the thing ran cool and I knew Yamaha would be around before the warranty was up.
Fast forward a few years, at least the market is starting to stabilize. Sure, TCL bought them out but TCL also has been improving their product so not a bad thing. I'd rather them being purchased by a company that wants to and is improving their product VS a company that only cares about profits, market share and stock price.
From what I recall, Pioneer Professional was spun off a few years ago as Pioneer Pro dominates the global club mixer/club products arena. Those mixers used in EDM festivals, night clubs and concerts cost many thousands of dollars and handle abuse far higher than any consumer product ever will. I believe (but not sure) that TAD was spun off as a professional brand--could be wrong but it might already be owned by someone else. If it makes you feel better, Pioneer Pro is still kicking butt in the club mixer market although it has Denon Professional biting at it's heels. Denon Professional is NOT Denon...they got spun off also and is owned by somebody else. Me thinks Marantz Pro also got spun off--my crystal ball is cloudy on that one.
So if you want stability, get a Yamaha or Sony as they remain the same. Well, the problem with Sony is they can go world class IF they want to. They have the wonderous ability to make great gear or proprietary crap.... because Sony! I do know that Sony is closing their audio gear factories in Brazil and Malaysia which is not a very good sign... Yamaha's new AVRs are better than what they replaced so they seem to want to do battle with Sound United--a bright spot it seems.
I'd rather TCL buy out Onkyo/Pioneer than to see those brands go away. Now that Sony seems to be backing away from audio, the odds that two companies at the top taking a rest strongly increases. At least with TCL Onkyo/Pioneer, they know if they take a rest that TCL might see it as an opportunity to innovate and kick some butts. Samsung/Harman is the dark horse, they can easily jump in with Harman Kardon and crush Sound United at will. After all, if Samsung so chooses it can make it's own parts, processors and electronic bits in it's own foundries and really push things forward. Sound United is more an assembler and depends on parts avialable off-the-shelf. It has been over 4 years since Samsung bought out Harman, they really don't seem all that interested in AVRs as smart speakers, studio monitors, soundbars and car audio/nav is a much higher profit area. Samsung does have some interesting tech, they have a processor that predicts increasing distortion, frequency response issues and power compression and will change the signal in real time to prevent that from happening. Oddly enough, their beta testing of that tech was used in a sound bar but it does have opportunities. You can bet that JBL Professional will be using that once it becomes viable for large scale arena, pro sound and theater systems--it will trickle down. Right now, the pro sound market is toast although that does allow more R&D time.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the last I knew the top 3 TV manufacturers were Samsung, LG and TCL. For the most part, consumers are not very familiar with Onkyo but they do know Pioneer. Not sure what TCL will do with the brands, they will probably use them for soundbars and the like for their TVs--start with what you know. Hopefully they throw some money at them to move product and innovate but I'm not concerned. There is a site called ASR that will strap the gear down, plug it and and letter rip!
Could be worse..AudioQuest could of bought them! Ack!
For me, TCL is the company who chose the name to annoy people who search about Tcl (the programming language) on the web. Otherwise, not interested in smart TVs, if someone know of a good "big monitor" or completely dumb screen without cable TV support, I'd be interested.
