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Chernobyl series on HBO

JJB70

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The diesel thing is a good example of the dangers of wrong headed policy making which is based in entirely commendable motives. And don't get me started on engine certification, EU government departments, environmental regulators, green NGOs etc were all fully aware of the short coming of engine emissions certification for years before the VW scandal broke but acquiesced in the system as it was considered to be promoting a goal they supported (I know this because I was paid to prepare reports and advise a few of them). Once the storm broke then it was almost like a game of musical chairs with the last one standing left to take all the blame.
 

Cosmik

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I feel you just need to steep yourself in the literature
That's an interesting one. If you were to have steeped yourself in all the literature on economics, say, then it would probably have made you less likely to predict the economic crash of 2007/8. It doesn't mean that I, an ignoramus, would have known any better about it, but at least I would be looking down on the wood (so to speak) rather than in amongst the trees.

For example, I distrust GDP as a measure of economic health much more than the average economist whose usual view is along the lines of "Well we don't have anything better to measure it by...". They have invested a lot in becoming an expert, and they're not going to let the small matter of a defective measure stand in their way. If they all agree to use it, at least they can't be blamed individually when it all blows up. I think British PM Gordon Brown was one of these people, and the man whose article I linked to yesterday (a BBC presenter) spotted Gordon Brown's mistakes before the crash.

As mentioned before, the reason we have politicians making decisions, rather than scientists or other experts, is to act as intermediaries who can see past the hubris that all enthusiasts and obsessives are prone to. It all gets a bit weird when virtue signalling rears its head, though. Then *everyone* in polite society works towards something without it necessarily having to be real.
 

Cosmik

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I've just finished fastening a handle to a hardboard placard for my daughter to take to a climate change demo tomorrow. It's what you do isn't it? It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not; you just pitch in because it's what nice people do :).
 
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Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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That's an interesting one. If you were to have steeped yourself in all the literature on economics, say, then it would probably have made you less likely to predict the economic crash of 2007/8. It doesn't mean that I, an ignoramus, would have known any better about it, but at least I would be looking down on the wood (so to speak) rather than in amongst the trees.

For example, I distrust GDP as a measure of economic health much more than the average economist whose usual view is along the lines of "Well we don't have anything better to measure it by...". They have invested a lot in becoming an expert, and they're not going to let the small matter of a defective measure stand in their way. If they all agree to use it, at least they can't be blamed individually when it all blows up. I think British PM Gordon Brown was one of these people, and the man whose article I linked to yesterday (a BBC presenter) spotted Gordon Brown's mistakes before the crash.

As mentioned before, the reason we have politicians making decisions, rather than scientists or other experts, is to act as intermediaries who can see past the hubris that all enthusiasts and obsessives are prone to. It all gets a bit weird when virtue signalling rears its head, though. Then *everyone* in polite society works towards something without it necessarily having to be real.
That's an interesting one. If you were to have steeped yourself in all the literature on economics, say, then it would probably have made you less likely to predict the economic crash of 2007/8. It doesn't mean that I, an ignoramus, would have known any better about it, but at least I would be looking down on the wood (so to speak) rather than in amongst the trees.

I don't know that the above statement is really true. It was more of a mania in what people ignored. I remember my econ prof speaking about the big 5 accounting firms. How you needed audits by those in larger companies as their integrity was beyond reproach and you could count on the info from those. Well I say big 5, it is now big 4 because Author Andersen sold out basically all their credibility. There were people that noticed, but that was an unpopular opinion no one wanted to hear. AA did in the end get put out of business.

There were plenty who with regular economic knowledge knew the gig was up. In fact what mystified them for 2 or 3 years is why it hadn't fallen apart yet. I haven't worked in economics and my education is not heavy in that area. But I remember discussing with friends in 2006 when more credit was issued to the USA citizens than they earned collectively how that could go on. That number had jumped sharply for about 4 years there. And in aggregate you knew that meant a huge number of people had spent much more in each year by a large percentage than they earned that year. I had one relative in the mortgage business. When he described how they were doing loans I told him he was crazy. That would never keep working for long. He didn't care he was making money. It went bust a couple year later. He didn't however, he had gotten his cut.
 

Cosmik

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...But my daughter doesn't want to have to walk to the demo with the placard. I have to give her a lift in our dirty old diesel car.
 
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Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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Well, the fellow in charge during the reactor explosion is really something. Dying of radiation exposure in the hospital and still denies he knows there was an explosion. Is he that much toe the party line guy, or has the need for it caused him to resist reality that hard? It doesn't matter as he thinks he'll get the bullet either way.
 

Ceburaska

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Well, the fellow in charge during the reactor explosion is really something. Dying of radiation exposure in the hospital and still denies he knows there was an explosion. Is he that much toe the party line guy, or has the need for it caused him to resist reality that hard? It doesn't matter as he thinks he'll get the bullet either way.
Have you been listening to the podcast? Well worth it for the writer’s comments, especially the scenes that didn’t make the final cut.
 
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Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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Have you been listening to the podcast? Well worth it for the writer’s comments, especially the scenes that didn’t make the final cut.
I've seen the after the show bit which talks about that for about 5 minutes. Does the podcast have more info?
 

andreasmaaan

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Very nice to read through a long, intelligent, rational and respectful discussion between the old members on one of the big issues :) Reminds me of the fight club sub-forum before it went down the gurgler.
 

g29

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Only 26 more reactors with the same design flaws !!! They are going to run out of biological robots.
 
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Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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Here is a nice simple description of the RMBK reactors like the one at Chernobyl.
The section "Operating reactivity margin" explains how this design was capable of running away when you tried to shut it down. It notes the operators of the reactor were unaware of this prior to the accident.

Safety upgrades were made to other RMBK reactors and there are still 11 of them operating in Russia.

http://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf
Here is a nice PDF describing the particulars of the accident.
 
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Ceburaska

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I've seen the after the show bit which talks about that for about 5 minutes. Does the podcast have more info?
Each episode is over 40 mins. Available on you tube too.
 

Ceburaska

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Only 26 more reactors with the same design flaws !!! They are going to run out of biological robots.
They filmed at Ignalina, Lithuania. It had 2 RBMK reactors, and was closed in 2009. Ten reactors are still operational, in Kursk, Leningrad and Smolensk districts.
 

Ceburaska

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Googling Pripyat Cheburashka got me a kindergarten, although I’m unsure of that as the Soviet system used numbers normally, not names (especially of cartoon characters!), and this photo (user submitted on atlasobscura.com)
0813A2A6-130B-4C0A-8C31-DAE296A8CB3F.jpeg

It has the Russian letter “ch” in the top left, so maybe a page from an alphabet book.
 

g29

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The moral of the story from tonight's episode. "Trust us, we're from the government, we are here to help."
 
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Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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The moral of the story from tonight's episode. "Trust us, we're from the government, we are here to help."
At least no spoilers in your post. I've not yet watched the latest episode, but will soon.

Previously I would have said, "Trust us, the gov't helped and you WILL say we helped.....regardless."
 

g29

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At least no spoilers in your post. I've not yet watched the latest episode, but will soon.

Previously I would have said, "Trust us, the gov't helped and you WILL say we helped.....regardless."

Be sure to wait for and read the trailing comments.
 

Ceburaska

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An outstanding episode, really well structured, written, acted.
 

Krunok

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