Cheapest Full Range 20hz - 20khz Speakers?

[richard12511]

I see no IMD measurements at Data-Bass and the HD tests were made at 115dB and ploted with a 100dB vertical scale so pretty much useless.
I've seen the AV Nirvana test before, it only shows FR plots, not particularly informative except for tonal balance and directivity.
And just because a speaker is able to produce a nice-looking graph in the frequency domain doesn't mean it won't have any issues.

I agree in regard to compromise at affordable prices.
There are trade-offs when you choose to go for a high SPL and high sensitivity design. One of them is size, the other is limited ULF extension.
At least port seems to be tuned to 17Hz which is below audibility.

Databass does imd distortion and uses the standard, so you know their numbers are legit and below imd thresholds. The 215s are truly full range. Also even with the 100dB scale, it's still pretty easy to see it's ~4-5% around 20Hz and 12-13% at 15Hz and at 115dB. I would think those figures are below human ear thresholds of detection. We're not very sensitive at all at those frequencies.

 

[richard12511]

I agree with others though who are recommending to use subwoofers. No full range speaker is going to compete with well placed subs.

 

[scrubb]

Cheapest that I run across are the GoldenEar Tritons - but that's going by the manufacturer spec, I'm not sure how reliable those are. Maybe someone knows independent measurements.

Triton Three+ claims frequency response 21 Hz - 35 kHz(no idea if -3dB or -10dB, probably the latter) for $1,399.00 each.
Triton Two+ is 16 Hz - 35 kHz for $1,999.00 each
Triton One.R is 13 Hz - 35 kHz for $3,299.00 each
and their flagship Reference model is $4,999.00 each for 12 Hz - 35 kHz

Those are passive with a built-in powered subwoofer section.

Here's a link to measurements from the Triton Reference:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-reference-loudspeaker-measurements

I own a pair of Triton 3+ and according to my Dirac measurements they're useful down to about 25Hz in my room. I'm guessing the built-in powered sub makes this possible.

 

[richard12511]

Here's a link to measurements from the Triton Reference:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-reference-loudspeaker-measurements

I own a pair of Triton 3+ and according to my Dirac measurements they're useful down to about 25Hz in my room. I'm guessing the built-in powered sub makes this possible.

I've never really looked into GoldenEar, but looking at their towers now, I have to say that's some of the best bass performance I've seen(if it's true). It's especially impressive considering the relatively skinny shape of the towers. For example, their reference tower has less cone area than the JTR 215, in a much smaller cabinet, yet it digs 6Hz deeper. Sensitivity is similar. Very impressive! Stereophile measurements look pretty good, as well. Not sure why they've never been on my radar.

It's also smaller than the Salon2, yet digs 11Hz deeper, and does so with 7dB more efficiency (for half the price).

 

[andreasmaaan]

I've never really looked into GoldenEar, but looking at their towers now, I have to say that's some of the best bass performance I've seen(if it's true). It's especially impressive considering the relatively skinny shape of the towers. For example, their reference tower has less cone area than the JTR 215, in a much smaller cabinet, yet it digs 6Hz deeper. Sensitivity is similar. Very impressive! Stereophile measurements look pretty good, as well. Not sure why they've never been on my radar.

It's also smaller than the Salon2, yet digs 11Hz deeper, and does so with 7dB more efficiency (for half the price).

The LF section is active!

 

[richard12511]

The LF section is active!

Aha, didn't notice that. Yeah, having 1800 watts + DSP definitely helps .

 

[andreasmaaan]

Aha, didn't notice that. Yeah, having 1800 watts + DSP definitely helps .

BTW @richard12511, just noticed your signature line - those are some very nice systems you've got there

 

[richard12511]

BTW @richard12511, just noticed your signature line - those are some very nice systems you've got there

Thanks! I've got too many, tbh, and I've got a pair of 8351b on the way. Many are just wasting away in storage, as my house is fairly small(reason I can afford them ). I'll probably start trying to sell some soon, but for now it's fun to swap back and forth and hear differences.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks! I've got too many, tbh, and I've got a pair of 8351b on the way. Many are just wasting away in storage, as my house is fairly small(reason I can afford them ). I'll probably start trying to sell some soon, but for now it's fun to swap back and forth and hear differences.

Haha. Continue down the path you're on and the JTRs will end up being your bathroom system

 

[jcebedo11]

The cheapest way is to buy used inexpensive monitors (maybe Behringer b2030p). then buy two used inexpensive subwoofers that go to 20hz (maybe SVS PB1000). Then use the subs as speaker stands. You may need a smaller stands in between the monitor and sub to achieve correct height.

 

[richard12511]

Haha. Continue down the path you're on and the JTRs will end up being your bathroom system

Haha that would be quite the bathroom system. Might be a tough squeeze, though .

 

[daftcombo]

Please also consider that to reach linearly 20 Hz at your listening position you usually don't need loudspeakers that have their -3dB do deep as due to room gain those frequencies are usually significantly boosted, so often a -3dB point of around 30 Hz is enough.

What you call "room gain" is a rollercoaster of room modes. You might be right if one of the modes of the room gets triggered at 20Hz, otherwise no.

 

[FrantzM]

Getting to 20 Hz is achievable by a tweeter ... at perhaps -100 dB down

20~20 KHz at room filling level ( remember the Fletcher-Munson curves) cannot be cheap... I am not sure there are speakers able to sustain serious 20 Hz in room at 90 dB at 3 meter for less than $5000/pair... Unless you use subs

 

[Logan Nolag]

Are you asking for 20 to 20 because someone suggested it, or do you have actual needs? Very few males can hear anywhere near 20K and only when they were young. Very little music is below 60. A speaker flat do 20 Hz would be horrible in a room as would one flat to 20K.

Using subs as speaker stands is by far the most practical. Deep bass requires big cabinets. Monkey coffins went out of style back in the 80's.

Go listen to a pair of Vanderstein 2CE's and then think if you really need more. They are the quintessential " do no wrong" speaker. When put in a real room, they do have bass down into the low 20's.

No. No one suggested it. It's mostly just curiosity. Right now my main system is a pair of Dynaudio Focus 160s and a Dyanaudio BM14SII sub which easily goes down to 18hz so I already have a full range system. The reason I was thinking about this is because I was looking at Dynaudio's most expensive speakers the Confidence 60s and I noticed that they only go down to 29hz. The Confidence 60s cost around $45000 so I thought it was a bit strange that even at that price you would still need a subwoofer. Dynaudio's best subwoofer is only $2400 so I thought it would be weird to matcha $2400 sub with $45000 speakers. So I started looking at other really high end brands like Sonus Faber for example and I noticed that the only speakers that they had that could do full range were even more expensive than the Confidence 60s.

 

[sigbergaudio]

No. No one suggested it. It's mostly just curiosity. Right now my main system is a pair of Dynaudio Focus 160s and a Dyanaudio BM14SII sub which easily goes down to 18hz so I already have a full range system. The reason I was thinking about this is because I was looking at Dynaudio's most expensive speakers the Confidence 60s and I noticed that they only go down to 29hz. The Confidence 60s cost around $45000 so I thought it was a bit strange that even at that price you would still need a subwoofer. Dynaudio's best subwoofer is only $2400 so I thought it would be weird to matcha $2400 sub with $45000 speakers. So I started looking at other really high end brands like Sonus Faber for example and I noticed that the only speakers that they had that could do full range were even more expensive than the Confidence 60s.

29hz is pretty low, but even the Confidence 60s can benefit from a subwoofer (we tried). If you want a truly full range system, you need a subwoofer. There are extremely few exceptions.

 

[nick-v]

How big is your room?

My JBL Synthesis HDI-3800 have serious output into the mid 20Hz range in my smallish room (just to give an example of how much the room can come into play. They're spec'd as 37Hz (-6dB)). Almost "subwoofer" depth and quantity of bass in my room (with a target curve that boosts to +5dB at 30Hz then rolls off naturally).

 

[blueone]

It's also smaller than the Salon2, yet digs 11Hz deeper, and does so with 7dB more efficiency (for half the price).

How do you figure the Triton goes 11Hz deeper than a Salon2?

 

[richard12511]

How do you figure the Triton goes 11Hz deeper than a Salon2?

Well, they don't really say what the minus point is at 12Hz(could be -3, -6, -10, or -20 lol), so I'm definitely relying on an assumption. That assumption is that they're being at least mostly honest. Revel is more strait forward with their specs, and it's clearly listed that 23Hz is the -3 point. The GE does have quite a bit more cone area(4x10 vs 3x8), and given the 93dB sensitivity, it does seem like it probably has more absolute output capability at 20Hz

 

[thewas]

What you call "room gain" is a rollercoaster of room modes. You might be right if one of the modes of the room gets triggered at 20Hz, otherwise no.

Nope, the lowest room mode of common living room sizes is around 30-35 Hz and below that there is the so called pressure chamber effect that increases theoretically the amplitude by 12db/oct so you can get a linear response if your (sub)woofer drops with the same slope (usually closed baffle designs).

 

[MarcT]

Well, in addition to the Goldenears, another possibility might be a used set of Legacy Audio Focus SE, which are rated down to 18Hz +/- 2 dB. They sometimes are listed for as low as ~$7k. As mentioned in this thread, trying to loudly play sub 30Hz content is hard with smallish bass drivers is really hard. Which is why Legacy's philosophy has always been to use big bass drivers which only attempt to play over a relatively narrow frequency range. The Focus SE uses two 12 inch bass drivers. I don't know how they measure (I imagine not as well as Revel/Focal, etc.) above the bass frequencies, but if you don't demand near perfection in those frequencies, they might be an option. I've heard them at multiple audio shows and they always sound great to me, subjectively.

DSC_0717 by MDTshots, on Flickr