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Cheap volume control for active speakers?

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Hi,

I'm looking for a cheap solution for volume control between a DAC (Aune X1s, cinch outputs) and a pair of active speakers (JBL 305P, TRS or XLR inputs) for a friend.
I've picked out a few candidates (see below), what sort of issues do I need to be aware of with this sort of passive volume control, are there any alternatives I should look out for?

Should I rather get him one of the versions of this thing? EDIT: I've added what I could find about the versions of this thing at the bottom.

I can't find a firm figure for the JBLs input impedance but I've seen it quoted as 10kohm, I can't find anything for the Aune but I'm assuming that won't be the problem.
Spec-wise, the JBL Nano seems to look the best but detailed specs are somewhat hard to come by with these units.

The cable runs between the volume control and the speakers will have to be ~10m/30ft, unfortunately.
In case it matters, here's the sort of cables that would be used: Cinch, Cinch to XLR, Cinch to TS, T(R)S, T(R)S to XLR, XLR


Behringer Monitor1 (used, 20-30€):
Input impedance: 5K/10K ohms
Output impedance: 800 ohms
12373092_800.jpg

mon1.PNG

(manual)


JBL Nano Patch Plus (30-40€ used):
Input impedance: 5K ohms
Output impedance: 0-5K ohms
10948969_800.jpg

jblnano.PNG

(manual, specs & circuit diagram on page 3)


Mackie Big Knob Passive (35-45€ used):
12224937_800.jpg

bigknob.PNG

(manual, specs on page 8, circuit diagram on page 10)



Weiliang/DollaTek PGA2311 (39€ on Amazon Germany)
5133DkctWcL._AC_.jpg



Nobsound NS-07P/PGA2310 (57€ on Ebay Germany)
https://www.doukaudio.com/products/...receiver-hi-fi-preamplifier-remote-control-69
knob07.jpg



Nobsound NS-08P Pro (90€ on German Ebay)
https://www.doukaudio.com/products/...udio-preamplifier-128-level-relay-aptx-ll-195
knob08.jpg
 
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ernestcarl

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Have not looked closely at the options, but — if I can — I’d try to avoid any additional passive attenuators in the chain as much as possible and just go directly with digital attenuation/controllers.
 
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Have not looked closely at the options, but — if I can — I’d try to avoid any additional passive attenuators in the chain as much as possible and just go directly with digital attenuation/controllers.

Would you care to point me towards any cheap ones (other than this one)?
This seems to be the version Amir measured and this an updated version.
 
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ernestcarl

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Well, besides using JRiver’s physical remote (with flirc) and JRemote — or monkeymote for Foobar2000 exclusively — the only wireless digital volume “remote” which has an actual physical knob I’ve personally been using, and can vet for, is the audioengine D2 — expensive, and probably already somewhat ‘outdated’ now SNR-wise. My use is mainly HTPCs for my media playback or Alexa devices which you just give voice commands to...
 
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Well, besides using JRiver’s physical remote (with flirc) and JRemote — or monkeymote for Foobar2000 exclusively — the only wireless digital volume “remote” which has an actual physical knob I’ve personally been using, and can vet for, is the audioengine D2 — expensive, and probably already somewhat ‘outdated’ now SNR-wise. My use is mainly HTPCs for my media playback or Alexa devices which you just give voice commands to...

Right, I think I misunderstood you. I'm looking for volume control between the DAC and the speakers (the DAC is being used with sources other than just the PC).

I'm trying to find a solution for a friend that doesn't compromise the sound quality of a pair of JBL 305Ps if possible at as low a price as I can find.
Beyond that, degrading the signal from the Aune isn't an issue, his STAX (SRM-1 mk2 Pro + SR Lambda Pro) is being fed straight from the DAC.

I was looking for advice on issues of input/output impedance and cable capacitance (the long runs are unavoidable I'm afraid) with a passive volume control vs THD+N issues with active units. I know both are far from optimal in their cheap incarnations.
 
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ernestcarl

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Right, I think I misunderstood you. I'm looking for volume control between the DAC and the speakers (the DAC is being used with sources other than just the PC).

As I said, haven’t really looked closely or measured the actual differences between these passive type remotes and prefer direct digital attenuation.

Okay, for the passive ones that I’ve actually used, the physical potentiometers can/may develop ‘issues’ over time such as the TC Electronic Level Pilot or always have them already at the outset with low volumes i.e. channel mismatch. Just my experience...
 
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Okay, for the passive ones that I’ve actually used, the physical potentiometers can/may develop ‘issues’ over time such as the TC Electronic Level Pilot or always have them already at the outset with low volumes i.e. channel mismatch. Just my experience...

Oh I'm aware of that, hard to avoid in the target price range but the JBLs have their own volume controls on the back so I'm hoping their input sensitivity can be set to use the pot at the upper end of it's range.

The other issue is the high output impedance of passive volume controls on lower volumes, I don't understand the matter enough to judge the impact this will have (esp. given the long cable runs) and detailed specs are hard to come by for most of these cheap units.

The active ones have their own problems. Other than the one Nobsound unit Amir measured, it's hard to tell the usable ones from the complete junk.
Remote control & Bluetooth are a plus, though.

Right now the JBL Nano looks reasonable on the passive side and the Nobsound/Douk Audio/whatever seems worth trying at 39€.
 

ernestcarl

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For that price, I don’t think you are losing much and at least you/your friend gets to test it with the actual equipment used.
 
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I've seen that one, frequent user complaints about the pot and the manufacturer hasn't bother publishing meaningful specifications.
"Product Information" (5 pages of marketing, no specs)
"Quick Start Guide" (basic instructions, no useful technical specs)

Looks like a bad copy of the discontinued Emotiva Control Freak, at least it's actually balanced (unlike e.g. the Big Knob) but so is the JBL Nano.
Given the long cable runs, the output impedance matters. I have to assume that the pots on all of these are pretty mediocre.

I've been giving the cheap Nobsound unit some more thought, my friend can order that one new from Amazon and test it out before the speakers arrive. The pot issues and output impedance should be a factor with that one and he can judge the distortion and noise floor (esp. at lower volume) by wiring it between his DAC and his STAX.
The cheap passive units aren't likely to develop defects other than the pot issues given their simple construction while the Nobsound thingy might just decide to die for no discernible reason.
 

bunnyfuzz

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I have both TC Electronic Level Pilot C and Level Pilot X. I haven't used the Level Pilot C yet but it has an odd cabling design that is never revealed in the company photos.
IMG_1424.jpeg

The main cable is very short, and the input and output cables are of very unequal lengths.
 LEVEL-PILOT-C_P0C2Y_Front1_L.png

This company photo of the Level Pilot C is very misleading. I would have returned it, but the hassle wasn't worth the time and effort.

The TC Electronic Level Pilot X is as you would expect, a nice long main cable that terminates in four balanced inputs and outputs of equal length. A very nice product to use.
 
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ernestcarl

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I have both TC Electronic Level Pilot C and Level Pilot X. I haven't used the Level Pilot C yet but it has an odd cabling design that is never revealed in the company photos.
View attachment 81520
The main cable is very short, and the input and output cables are of very unequal lengths.
View attachment 81521
This company photo of the Level Pilot C is very misleading. I would have returned it, but the hassle wasn't worth the time and effort.

The TC Electronic Level Pilot X is as you would expect, a nice long main cable that terminates in four balanced inputs and outputs of equal length. A very nice product use.

Huh... the new Pilot C is rather strange. It would be nice if TC Electronic also made a simple USB digital volume control as well — just for the aesthetics.
 
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I have both TC Electronic Level Pilot C and Level Pilot X. I haven't used the Level Pilot C yet but it has an odd cabling design that is never revealed in the company photos.

The main cable is very short, and the input and output cables are of very unequal lengths.

This company photo of the Level Pilot C is very misleading. I would have returned it, but the hassle wasn't worth the time and effort.

The TC Electronic Level Pilot X is as you would expect, a nice long main cable that terminates in four balanced inputs and outputs of equal length. A very nice product to use.

Did you have any issues with channel imbalance at lower volumes? The unequal cable lengths (short from the source, long to the speakers) would actually be good, the Knob would sit right next to the DAC (and the Stax SRM which has a pass-through input).



150€ from the Douk Audio (aka Nobsound aka Weiliang) and it ships from China either way (which almost certainy means 16% Import-VAT will be applied by customs). Given that the speakers cost ~220€ for the pair, that's obviously way too much.

In that price range he could buy a Topping L30, use the preouts and have an excellent headphone amp on top (he does have a pair of Philips X2s besides his Stax and the amp in the Aune isn't ideal for that).

EDIT: Thinking about it, I should probably gently push him towards the L30.
 
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Bob-23

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The active ones
If you want to be on the safe side, I'd always go with an active one, which has both an input buffer and an output buffer (2 cheap but good op amps can do that e.g. NE5532, or JRC4556 = 1,50 Euro, of course, plus power supply - that can be audibly 'clean') in order to avoid potential high pass filtering when the dac has an output capacitor (forming a variable highpass filter with the vol pot), and in order to avoid unwanted voltage drops. On the other hand, it may all be not audible. But buffering is the more elegant solution. - But, why don't you use the vol pots of the speakers, on the first place?
To cables: If they're longer, look for a good shielding! That also doesn't have to be expensive, but many cables have an extremely bad shielding, which isn't a problem with very short cables but becomes one with long cables.
 
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bunnyfuzz

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I haven't noticed any imbalance problems at lower volumes with the TC Electronic Level Pilot X.

re TC Electronic Level Pilot C: If the short main cable and unequal input and output lengths of the Level Pilot C were a sales plus I think they would've mentioned it instead of portraying it as otherwise by their own inaccurate/photoshopped sales photos.

I have the Behringer Monitor 1 too and I prefer using the Level Pilot X. The Monitor 1 has more hookup options and a mute and mono button, but I prefer the feel and practicality of the Level Pilot X. The Level Pilot X does have some weight, but it could stand a bit more mass to reduce any residual "tippyness".

No perceived channel imbalance with the Behringer Monitor 1 either.
 
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If you want to be on the safe side, I'd always go with an active one, which has both an input buffer and an output buffer (2 cheap but good op amps can do that e.g. NE5532, or JRC4556 = 1,50 Euro, of course, plus power supply - that can be audibly 'clean') in order to avoid potential high pass filtering when the dac has an output capacitor (forming a variable highpass filter with the vol pot), and in order to avoid unwanted voltage drops. On the other hand, it may all be not audible. But buffering is the more elegant solution. - But, why don't you use the vol pots of the speakers, on the first place?
To cables: If they're longer, look for a good shielding! That also doesn't have to be expensive, but many cables have an extremely bad shielding, which isn't a problem with very short cables but becomes one with long cables.

Assuming he goes with the Nobsound or the Topping L30 (I think I'll be pushing for that one, I might offer to buy it off him if he changes his mind),
would you say one of these and a pair of these would fit the bill? Or maybe DMX-cables for better shielding?

But, why don't you use the vol pots of the speakers, on the first place?
You mean the seperate volume controls on the back of the speakers? That would be rather inconvenient...
 
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Bob-23

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Assuming he goes with the Nobsound or the Topping L30 (I think I'll be pushing for that one, I might offer to buy it off him if he changes his mind),
would you say one of these and a pair of these would fit the bill? Or maybe DMX-cables for better shielding?


You mean the seperate volume controls on the back of the speakers? That would be rather inconvenient...
Grüße nach Bremen noch! Schöne Stadt.
The shorter, the better, 1.50 m is no problem... But in the 10m range shielding is important. I've got one cable from Cordial, it's a good quality, the other one I can't judge. The last cables I made myself, got it from Segor here in Berlin: very well-shielded RCA cable, great quality, think I payed for 10 m 7 Euros. I could't find it actually on Segor's site, they might only have in the shop, and trim it for your wanted length. But without a soldering iron it would't help you anyway. The cheap ready ones of Segor's I wouldn't recommend.

EDIT: I'd ring up Thomann, usually they are quite competent, ask which one has the better shielding.
 
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raif71

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I suppose one scenario for a volume control is if one has such a setup, dac-->Topping A50-->volume control-->active speakers , then one can fix the volume of the active speakers and let the volume control, control the volume of the speakers since A50 doesn't have a preamp feature
 
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