Cheap old soundcard vs onboard audio

[Octopuss]

Say you have a motherboard with the classic botttom of the food chain Realtek ALC897 chip. Would I theoretically get any better sound if I grab the cheapest used PCIe sound card that still works in Windows 10/11? (if yes, what should I look for?)
I plan to buy Schiit Bifrost 2 at some point in future when I can afford it but it's not at the top of the priorities list.

P.S. This is just for listening music (and to lesser extent gaming).

 

[voodooless]

If it's only temporary, just use the mainboard..

As for the Bifrost 2 and its price: just buy another cheaper USB DAC that has the features you need. Most of them will sound exactly the same as long as the are competenly designed. No need to spend so much money.

 

[ZolaIII]

Now all PCI-E X1 audio cards are old and in 100~150$ range should get you covered. Listening music on what and how much chenels you need? For 5.1 Creative Sound Blaster Z SE (old CS DAC not too bad for them ADC and Toslink I/O but not good headphone amplifier for 100$) or Creative AE-5/AE-5 Plus (ESS 32 DAC deacent headphone Amp but no Toslink input for 150$). You might try second hand also. If motherboard has optical out you might prefer to pick up Toslink from there and use something that will literally be separated from PC and it's PSU.

 

[audio_tony]

Asus Xonar DX or Xonar Essence STX - both excellent cards, and the DX in particular can be found quite cheap on Ebay. Just ensure you get the right version for your PC bus (PCI or PCIx).

 

[Octopuss]

As for the Bifrost 2 and its price: just buy another cheaper USB DAC that has the features you need.

I believe I need their shielded USB tech. I tried some Topping DAC and I could still hear some electrical noise in the speakers.

 

[Octopuss]

Oh and I did have SB AE-5 but sold it months ago, because I didn't feel the need. My previous board also had somewhat better sound chip on it (Realtek 1200 something, no idea).
AE-5 is too expensive to buy, even second hand. Over here at least, maybe it's cheaper in other 2nd hand markets.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I believe I need their shielded USB tech. I tried some Topping DAC and I could still hear some electrical noise in the speakers.

Most likely a USB ground loop or USB noise leakage, rather a DAC issue.

 

[DVDdoug]

I believe I need their shielded USB tech. I tried some Topping DAC and I could still hear some electrical noise in the speakers.

If there's a defect or difference it's usually noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Distortion and frequency response are almost always better than human hearing.

So if you aren't hearing noise, don't expect a better soundcard/soundchip to improve the sound, even if it measures better. If you want to alter/improve the sound, try EQ, or different speakers-headphones.

The good news is, noise is a rare problem.* Bad news is, it's often hard to fix.

Computers have a lot of electrical noise internally and the power supplies tend to be noisy, including USB power. Sometimes that noise leaks into the analog side. Then you don't know if you should blame the computer or to blame the soundcard for being poorly filtered.

There are USB isolators but if you buy one, make sure the power (and ground) are isolated.



* It's more of a problem with microphone input on a soundcard/interface because the mic preamp is high-gain and any noise gets amplified.

 

[RPoitou]

I believe I need their shielded USB tech. I tried some Topping DAC and I could still hear some electrical noise in the speakers.

Strange unwanted noise on a USB DAC is probably caused by an old or dying PC PSU, replacing that could cost you less than an internal sound card and then any USB DAC from a 'known name' should be excellent.

 

[Octopuss]

Uh, no.
I have almost brand new PSU, and my PC is perfectly fine. There is simply some crappy noise present. I had it for years, and I changed hardware a few times too. It was doing i with the AE-5 too (but that doesn't surprise me since I use analog outputs, and unfortunately my amp has analog inputs only, no optical).

For one, if I ramp amp volume up, I can hear buzzing sound when I move the mouse. I guess this is inevitable with USB, from what I read. Unless there is some signal shielding circuitry like Schiit has. I don't think anyone else does, but that might just me my impression.

For two, completely randomly I'd hear some noise I can't really describe. That might be coming from the electrical grid. It just comes and goes. It kind of reminds me of times when you'd put your old mobile phone too close to those small active desktop speakers and they'd go crazy, only it's not like that, it's more static.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

For one, if I ramp amp volume up, I can hear buzzing sound when I move the mouse. I guess this is inevitable with USB, from what I read

Noise when you move the mouse is NOT inevitable with USB.

You most likely have an earth loop. If not, you might have noise generated in your PC and bleeding through your USB power or signal lines.

Search ASR you find multiple threads on exactly this problem and you will find the same products being recommended to block USB noise and/or USB ground loops.

 

[Octopuss]

I tried those weird little black blocks you clip onto power cables and that didn't change anything. Neither did changing ALL PC components (eventually, not all at once).
We also had a complete electrical wiring reconstruction on our floor including completely new distributor box or whatever is it called, so it's not the wiring in the house either.
I really don't know.

Can you link me to specific thread instead? I have no idea what to search for and I don't feel like blindly trying random words when you clearly have an idea. Thanks.

 

[voodooless]

I believe I need their shielded USB tech. I tried some Topping DAC and I could still hear some electrical noise in the speakers.

You can just get a USB isolator like the Topping HS02

 

[kyuu]

I've used USB directly to my Adam Audio D3V on multiple PCs without noise issues, so it's certainly not inevitable.

If you can't get rid of the noise through USB, another solution would be to use optical (TOSLINK) instead. If your PC doesn't have an optical out, there are numerous cheap USB to TOSLINK adapters that should do you fine. I generally recommend this one.

 

[RPoitou]

I tried those weird little black blocks you clip onto power cables and that didn't change anything. Neither did changing ALL PC components (eventually, not all at once).
We also had a complete electrical wiring reconstruction on our floor including completely new distributor box or whatever is it called, so it's not the wiring in the house either.
I really don't know.

Can you link me to specific thread instead? I have no idea what to search for and I don't feel like blindly trying random words when you clearly have an idea. Thanks.

Have you tried changing the mains power lead to the PC? or borrowing a laptop and trying a USB DAC between that and your amplifier?

 

[ZolaIII]

It's EMI from switching power supply. If bord has optical Toslink out use that to external DAC with such input. Eventually save money for such DSP with enough chenels for your needs. Only problem I have with mice is a wheel (ironically on modular such).

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I tried those weird little black blocks you clip onto power cables and that didn't change anything

It won't. That's the wrong "noise"

Neither did changing ALL PC components (eventually, not all at once).

Also, not guaranteed to fix anything.

We also had a complete electrical wiring reconstruction on our floor including completely new distributor box or whatever is it called, so it's not the wiring in the house either

Nothing to do with mains wiring (unless dangerously bad).

Can you link me to specific thread instead

Search for Topping HS02 threads.

 

[Octopuss]

You can just get a USB isolator like the Topping HS02

Oh wait! I now remember I tried some ultra cheap USB ground isolator once, but returned it after I read it was supposedly butchering sound quality. It was called "Lithe Audio Ground Loop Isolator". It also worked.

 

[Octopuss]

It won't. That's the wrong "noise"

Also, not guaranteed to fix anything.

Nothing to do with mains wiring (unless dangerously bad).

Search for Topping HS02 threads.

If none of the things mentioned fix the problem, where is the problem coming from?

 

[Octopuss]

Have you tried changing the mains power lead to the PC? or borrowing a laptop and trying a USB DAC between that and your amplifier?

What does this mean? English is not my native language, sorry.