Cheap but good balanced DAC ?

[Nytrex]

I'm looking for the cheapest but still decent DAC that has balanced output, optical or ARC input and the possibility to control the output volume remotely.
I believe there's only two way for that:
1. HDMI ARC input (volume controlled by TV remote)
2. Optical input with a remote for the DAC

I have seen the SMSL M300SE but I saw several times that it has bugs but I don't know which ones exactly and how it impacts the DAC.

Which one would you recommend?
It would be paired with active speakers

 

[staticV3]

Which one would you recommend?

Topping E50 or Fosi ZD3

 

[Nytrex]

Topping E50 or Fosi ZD3

I had already seen the ZD3, it's pricier 180€ in France compared to 130€ for the M300SE but it does seem to be really good. About the Topping E50, it seems to be discontinued or at least not shipped to France anymore because it's out of stock everywhere and some website like Audiophonics says "Permanently stopped".
Thanks a lot for these recommandations

 

[staticV3]

About the Topping E50, it seems to be discontinued or at least not shipped to France anymore because it's out of stock everywhere and some website like Audiophonics says "Permanently stopped".
Thanks a lot for these recommandations

Seems to be de facto replaced by the D50III, which appears to be much more of a WIP with frequent firmware updates, surely caused in part by the added hardware DSP capability.

 

[lucian]

I had already seen the ZD3, it's pricier 180€ in France compared to 130€ for the M300SE but it does seem to be really good. About the Topping E50, it seems to be discontinued or at least not shipped to France anymore because it's out of stock everywhere and some website like Audiophonics says "Permanently stopped".
Thanks a lot for these recommandations

what i like about the M300SE - it just needs USB as power - no extra 12V power brick.

 

[Nytrex]

Seems to be de facto replaced by the D50III, which appears to be much more of a WIP with frequent firmware updates, surely caused in part by the added hardware DSP capability.

The D50III is 230€ here. What's better/different from the ZD3? And is it worth the extra 50€?

I haven't bought the speakers yet. I'd like to spend less than 600€ in total. So every bucks I can save can go to the speakers which are probably the most important thing.
Some active speakers like the Kali IN series and LP series have unbalanced RCA input, that would be great if I could use them because I can find much cheaper DAC (Topping E30 II Lite for example) and get better speaker with the money left. However I read several times that the RCA input is bad and that you get problem with ground and stuff. There's also "multimedia" active speakers like Kali MM6s and Edifier Airpulse A100.
What would you do?

 

[Nytrex]

what i like about the M300SE - it just needs USB as power - no extra 12V power brick.

It's nice but I don't mind a power brick at all

 

[lucian]

The D50III is 230€ here. What's better/different from the ZD3? And is it worth the extra 50€?

I haven't bought the speakers yet. I'd like to spend less than 600€ in total. So every bucks I can save can go to the speakers which are probably the most important thing.
Some active speakers like the Kali IN series and LP series have unbalanced RCA input, that would be great if I could use them because I can find much cheaper DAC (Topping E30 II Lite for example) and get better speaker with the money left. However I read several times that the RCA input is bad and that you get problem with ground anFosi ZD3d stuff. There's also "multimedia" active speakers like Kali MM6s and Edifier Airpulse A100.
What would you do?

thats exactly why i got the M300SE. I could not use the (cable based) remote of my Iloud without a lot of hiss. with XLR - all fine now. it depends on your local situation - before you try both variants you will not know for sure. save way woulb be to directly go for XLR.

 

[Nytrex]

thats exactly why i got the M300SE. I could not use the (cable based) remote of my Iloud without a lot of hiss. with XLR - all fine now. it depends on your local situation - before you try both variants you will not know for sure. save way woulb be to directly go for XLR.

That's why I was looking for balanced DAC but like I said, every bucks spent on the DAC is less money for the speakers. With an unbalanced DAC I could get 250€ for each speaker which would buy me something like Kali IN-8 V2. Whereas a balanced DAC (Fosi ZD3) would left me only 200€ for each speaker which could buy something like Kali LP6-V2.
What I'm thinking is that a great balanced DAC, if it lasts long can be paired with better speakers if one day I decide to upgrade. An unbalanced DAC would be less useful since most higher end active speakers use balanced input and are more sensitive to noise (I think?).

 

[staticV3]

I haven't bought the speakers yet. I'd like to spend less than 600€ in total. So every bucks I can save can go to the speakers which are probably the most important thing.

Have you considered the Kali MM-6?

Then you wouldn't require a DAC at all.

 

[kyuu]

Indeed, if you're using active speakers then just skip the (additional) DAC and get speakers that have a USB or other acceptable digital input.

 

[jkim]

Have you considered the Kali MM-6?

Then you wouldn't require a DAC at all.

Indeed, if you're using active speakers then just skip the (additional) DAC and get speakers that have a USB or other acceptable digital input.

While this is a good idea, it will limit choices.

Another idea is to consider a relatively inexpensive audio interface, like Topping E2x2 or Steinberg IXO22. DAC quality of these audio interfaces should be audibly transparent.

By the way, I would not consider a DAC, like SMSL M300 SE, based on CS43131 due to DRE-induced distortion.

 

[kyuu]

While this is a good idea, it will limit choices.

Sure, but there's still good options.

In addition to the Kali MM-6, they also have the IN-UNF (a pretty cool system in general if it works for your setup) and the LP-UNF. There's also the Adam Audio D3V, Kanto Ora 4 or Ren, and the Venatoo Transparent Zero+ or One Encore+, off the top-of-my-head.

 

[Nytrex]

Have you considered the Kali MM-6?

Then you wouldn't require a DAC at all.

There's also "multimedia" active speakers like Kali MM6s and Edifier Airpulse A100.

I did consider the Kali MM-6. It's very practical since everything I need is included in the speakers.
However, I don't know if that's really the best sound I can get for the money I have. That's why I was asking your opinion on the different options. I don't mind have separate DAC if I have a better sound.
And one thing I was wondering is how long speakers like these lasts? Since everything is included, there's more things inside the speakers so more chance for something to break and if it does the whole system is dead. Whereas with a separate DAC if something break I could change only the defective device (the DAC or the speakers and if it is the speakers I could potentially have more options for new speakers as I wouldn't need a integrated DAC).
That being said, since my main goal is to have the best sound possible if you think I can't good much improvement with a separate DAC, I may as well get the MM6. I think Kali has a good rep so the longevity would probably be fine anyway.

 

[Nytrex]

Sure, but there's still good options.

In addition to the Kali MM-6, they also have the IN-UNF (a pretty cool system in general if it works for your setup) and the LP-UNF. There's also the Adam Audio D3V, Kanto Ora 4 or Ren, and the Venatoo Transparent Zero+ or One Encore+, off the top-of-my-head.

Some of these aren't available in France like the Venatoo.
The speakers would be for mid/far field listening so the D3V or the IN-UNF/LP-UNF are not really suited for this.
Thanks for the suggestions though

 

[Nytrex]

While this is a good idea, it will limit choices.

Another idea is to consider a relatively inexpensive audio interface, like Topping E2x2 or Steinberg IXO22. DAC quality of these audio interfaces should be audibly transparent.

By the way, I would not consider a DAC, like SMSL M300 SE, based on CS43131 due to DRE-induced distortion.

I have very little knowledge about audio interface. It could be a great option but I don't think that I would be able to control the volume remotely which is mandatory for my setup.

 

[jkim]

I have very little knowledge about audio interface. It could be a great option but I don't think that I would be able to control the volume remotely which is mandatory for my setup.

Oh, I missed that requirement. If I were you, I would make a special impedance-balancing cable to connect an unbalanced DAC output to active speakers.

 

[kyuu]

Alright, so if this is intended to be a mid-field setup, what active speakers are you planning to get that will fit into your 600 Euro budget? JBL 305/6/8P might be suitable for mid-field, assuming those are available in your market. Edit: Actually I'd probably recommend the Adam Audio T5V over the JBLs. Couple of refurb models at 160 each, plus the Fosi ZD3 at 180, coming in around 520 Euros.

As far as the DAC goes, I don't see anything that would fit the bill better than the Fosi ZD3 really, particularly if you insist on balanced outputs. Though unless you're doing an unusually long run between the DAC and the speakers unbalanced should work just fine.

 

[Nytrex]

Oh, I missed that requirement. If I were you, I would make a special impedance-balancing cable to connect an unbalanced DAC output to active speakers.

What do you mean by make a impedance balancing cable? Like build one? I don't think I can do that

 

[Nytrex]

Alright, so if this is intended to be a mid-field setup, what active speakers are you planning to get that will fit into your 600 Euro budget? JBL 305/6/8P might be suitable for mid-field, assuming those are available in your market. Edit: Actually I'd probably recommend the Adam Audio T5V over the JBLs. Couple of refurb models at 160 each, plus the Fosi ZD3 at 180, coming in around 520 Euros.

As far as the DAC goes, I don't see anything that would fit the bill better than the Fosi ZD3 really, particularly if you insist on balanced outputs. Though unless you're doing an unusually long run between the DAC and the speakers unbalanced should work just fine.

I don't really insist on balanced input, in fact an unbalanced DAC would save me a lot of money. But I keep reading that there's issues with noise when using unbalanced input. I don't have a lot of things on my desk but I have a lot of cables nearby (like maybe 6-7 cables including power supply for things like TV, console and HDMI, Ethernet etc). Idk I that would create interference.

I'm not sure which speakers to get, I'm looking for that too. If I buy the ZD3 that leaves me with 400€ for the pair of speakers. I could buy Kali LP6-V2 for example or the JBL 305P/306P MKII or Pioneer DJ VM-50 and things like that.