ChatGPT advice: KEF LS50 Meta + Sub > GoldenEar Triton Three+

[Nynto]

Just to warn you: I'm new to this hobby. In fact, I have not even listened to my new speakers yet. They are still in their boxes. I'm currently in the process of finishing my new home and at the top of my priority list: good sound. Obviously I'm an idiot.

And like an idiot, I get my advice from ChatGPT. So I landed on the following setup: Wiim Ultra -> Hypex 252 -> Triton Three+. I have bought all these already, but I keep asking for advice from ChatGPT. I like to have discussions with it on topic I temporarily obsess over. His latest claim: the KEF LS50 Meta speakers with a good subwoofer will outperform my Triton Three+ speakers for my situation/wishes.

• Living room, mostly movies, but also a lot of music
• Asymmetrical layout: open kitchen to the left, wall/curtains to the right
• Limited placement depth: max ~20 cm from rear wall
• Listening distance: ~3 meters
• Seating: ~2.5–3 m wide couch; I’d like good sound for all people on the couch, not just the one person in the perfect spot
• What I want sonically: a holographic, enveloping presentation, stable imaging, precise placement, “sounds floating” around you, almost like you can grab it

I can still return the Tritons and switch to the KEFs if that’s the smarter move. I’d really appreciate expert perspectives.

Thanks in advance. I’m looking for some peace of mind before I unbox anything!

 

[RandomEar]

As you have already realized, ChatGPT is crap for such advice. It's a stochastic text generator - it's not "intelligent" in the literal sense of AI. And it will blatanly lie to you in case it doesn't know the response. That being said, the measurements of the Triton Three+ look decent:

[Source]

The graph doesn't tell us anything about directivity, though and I would expect a ribbon tweeter to be below average in this regard. So the treble region might sound different depending on your seating position - you should check that. Nonetheless, the Tritons look well engineered, are powerful and efficient and the integrated powered sub is definitely very convenient.

So, the easy answer is: If you're happy with the sound as it is now, just keep 'em. If not, the Wiim does offer EQ, which allows you to correct some broader frequency response errors. Play around with that, if it's required. How a speaker sounds is also influenced by room acoustics, so nobody will be able to tell you which speaker is a better fit for your space. From far away, we can only tell you if a speaker measures well and looks well engineered.

 

[Open Mind Audio]

I would not obsess over this one. ChatGPT can be a bit hasty in its conclusions, you know, especially on complex and nuanced situations like this -- a comparison of 1) "fuller" (not quite full) range speakers with integrated subs and passive radiators vs. 2) ported bookshelves with sub.

My suggestion would be to enjoy your purchase.

I own KEF LS 60 Wireless and Triton Ones (the OG Tritons), set up in different rooms, one for critical stereo listening (the KEFs), the other for Home Theater and surround audio. For fun we did a blind demo of the Triton Ones vs the KEFs, all level matched in the same room etc., with four participants. Every single person found they preferred some music on the KEFs and some music on the Tritons, and we all loved them both. None of us were golden-earred savants, but two of those people are accomplished musicians and I am an audio nut, so we were coming in with expectations.

Given your room situation, either set up can work well. The Tritons give you the advantage of not needing a sub. YES a sub would add to them, especially for movies, but you can thoroughly enjoy music without one.

Both speakers will perform optimally at a further distance from the back wall than 20 cm. That distance is the Achilles heel of the setup you described. You're likely to get boomy bass off the Tritons at that distance, and a sub may not be any better, unless you have flexibility to experiment with its placement. On the plus side with the Tritons, you're balancing dual bass sources, which will help smooth out the response.

Another good route: Consider carefully unpacking the Tritons so you can return them if needed, and then trying them out for two weeks on the music you listen to the most. The folks at GoldenEar will give you tips on placement as you experiment within the room. If you can't make the placement work, then you could return them and try a bookshelf / sub combo, but know that you'll also have bass issues with the sub. There's no guarantee you'll get better bass response with the sub (deeper yes, but not automatically better) unless you have flexibility on placement.

I've enjoyed not having a sub in my HT / multichannel room for the past 8 years. It's less cluttered and I enjoy having more or less full-range speakers. That's my opinion. Many on this forum would never go without 2-3 subs.

TLDR: You'll face compromises with either set up and both should be extremely good, so for now, I'd love the one you're with.

 

[HeadDoc12]

Just to warn you: I'm new to this hobby. In fact, I have not even listened to my new speakers yet. They are still in their boxes. I'm currently in the process of finishing my new home and at the top of my priority list: good sound. Obviously I'm an idiot.

And like an idiot, I get my advice from ChatGPT. So I landed on the following setup: Wiim Ultra -> Hypex 252 -> Triton Three+. I have bought all these already, but I keep asking for advice from ChatGPT. I like to have discussions with it on topic I temporarily obsess over. His latest claim: the KEF LS50 Meta speakers with a good subwoofer will outperform my Triton Three+ speakers for my situation/wishes.

• Living room, mostly movies, but also a lot of music
• Asymmetrical layout: open kitchen to the left, wall/curtains to the right
• Limited placement depth: max ~20 cm from rear wall
• Listening distance: ~3 meters
• Seating: ~2.5–3 m wide couch; I’d like good sound for all people on the couch, not just the one person in the perfect spot
• What I want sonically: a holographic, enveloping presentation, stable imaging, precise placement, “sounds floating” around you, almost like you can grab it

I can still return the Tritons and switch to the KEFs if that’s the smarter move. I’d really appreciate expert perspectives.

Thanks in advance. I’m looking for some peace of mind before I unbox anything!

Welcome to ASR! I am FAR from an expert, and many people here are recording engineers, reviewers, and even speaker designers, but I will do my best, based on MY several years reading this forum. KEF speakers generally measure far better than Tritons, and are among the more neutral-measuring brands out there. The measurements I am referring to are 1) flat frequency response (meaning minimal deviation from the input signal) both on-axis (the listener is facing the speaker directly), and off-axis (the listener is off to one side - if you point speakers directly into the room (not pointing at the listener) and sit between them, you are listening to their off-axis performance), AND 2) uniform directivity: this means that across the frequency spectrum (excepting deep bass which is omnidirectional by default) the amount of direct and reflected sound reaching you ears remains constant, which preserves tonal accuracy. KEF are known to excel in both of these areas (along with a few other brands), while the Tritons are simply far less accurate. SO, the KEFs with a sub will meet all of those criteria better, especially with it coaxial driver set-up (tweeter in the center of the mid/bass driver creates a “point source” speaker where the sound is all radiating from a single point, as opposed to multiple points in conventional speaker layouts), means that everyone on your couch is hearing essentially the same thing.
HOWEVER, regarding the last item on your list - holography - having speakers close to the rear wall (with the exception of a few odd brands that design for this) will tend to flatten the soundstage - it can also impact the bass output of a speaker in a negative way (boomy sound instead of clean bass). While the LS50 doesn’t get too low in the bass - so the boominess issue may not be a concern; you might even like what it does to the bass in your room - you will still lose out on soundstage depth (again, this is true for almost ANY speaker you buy, including the Tritons). Also the higher you cross over your sub, the less bass will be coming from the KEFs. I have the active LS50Wii, which have built-in amps and streaming, and the ability to tell the system how close to the wall they are. They are, of course, much more expensive than the regular LS50, and you will still need a sub (or several!) for movies. I have 2 KC62 subs, which get the job done in my space, but would be too small for larger rooms. Hope this helps!

 

[Open Mind Audio]

Welcome to ASR! I am FAR from an expert, and many people here are recording engineers, reviewers, and even speaker designers, but I will do my best, based on MY several years reading this forum. KEF speakers generally measure far better than Tritons, and are among the more neutral-measuring brands out there. The measurements I am referring to are 1) flat frequency response (meaning minimal deviation from the input signal) both on-axis (the listener is facing the speaker directly), and off-axis (the listener is off to one side - if you point speakers directly into the room (not pointing at the listener) and sit between them, you are listening to their off-axis performance), AND 2) uniform directivity: this means that across the frequency spectrum (excepting deep bass which is omnidirectional by default) the amount of direct and reflected sound reaching you ears remains constant, which preserves tonal accuracy. KEF are known to excel in both of these areas (along with a few other brands), while the Tritons are simply far less accurate. SO, the KEFs with a sub will meet all of those criteria better, especially with it coaxial driver set-up (tweeter in the center of the mid/bass driver creates a “point source” speaker where the sound is all radiating from a single point, as opposed to multiple points in conventional speaker layouts), means that everyone on your couch is hearing essentially the same thing.
HOWEVER, regarding the last item on your list - holography - having speakers close to the rear wall (with the exception of a few odd brands that design for this) will tend to flatten the soundstage - it can also impact the bass output of a speaker in a negative way (boomy sound instead of clean bass). While the LS50 doesn’t get too low in the bass - so the boominess issue may not be a concern; you might even like what it does to the bass in your room - you will still lose out on soundstage depth (again, this is true for almost ANY speaker you buy, including the Tritons). Also the higher you cross over your sub, the less bass will be coming from the KEFs. I have the active LS50Wii, which have built-in amps and streaming, and the ability to tell the system how close to the wall they are. They are, of course, much more expensive than the regular LS50, and you will still need a sub (or several!) for movies. I have 2 KC62 subs, which get the job done in my space, but would be too small for larger rooms. Hope this helps!

As the owner of both brands, I would never detract from the KEFs, but I also would not undersell the measurements of the Tritons. The OP is looking at two excellent choices.

Here are the NRC measurements for both the KEF LS50 Meta and the Triton Three+. You can see both are flat speakers, with different characteristics. The KEFs have an edge on controlled directivity across the listening window for sure, but the Tritons are also a seriously performing speaker, and they add integrated bass for music listening, which many of us appreciate accomplishing without sub(s).

Triton Three+ (NRC measurements): https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...n-three-plus-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153

KEF LS50 Meta (NRC measurements): https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...ef-ls50-meta-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153

Triton Three
Frequency response and sensitivity
Sensitivity: 87.4dB (averaged 300Hz-3kHz on Listening Window, 2.83V/1m)

Chart A: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

Chart B: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Top curve: 45 degrees off-axis response
Middle curve: 60 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 75 degrees off-axis response

Listening window​

20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Response curve is an average of five measurements: on-axis, 15 degrees left and right off-axis, 15 degrees up and down off-axis

Total harmonic distortion + noise​

Chart A: @ 90dB, 50Hz - 10kHz (measured @ 2m)

Top curve: frequency response @ 90dB SPL
Bottom curve: THD+N @ 90dB (50Hz - 10kHz)

Deviation from linearity​

Chart A: Difference @ 90dB from 70dB, 50Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m)

KEF LS50 Meta

Frequency response and sensitivity​

Sensitivity: 83.2dB (averaged 300Hz-3kHz on Listening Window, 2.83V/1m)

Chart A: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response

Chart B: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Top curve: 45 degrees off-axis response
Middle curve: 60 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 75 degrees off-axis response

Listening window​

20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)

Response curve is an average of five measurements: on-axis, 15 degrees left and right off-axis, 15 degrees up and down off-axis

Total harmonic distortion + noise​

Chart A: @ 90dB, 50Hz - 10kHz (measured @ 2m)

Top curve: frequency response @ 90dB SPL
Bottom curve: THD+N @ 90dB (50Hz - 10kHz)

Deviation from linearity​

Chart A: Difference @ 90dB from 70dB, 50Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m)

​

 

[scrubb]

That being said, the measurements of the Triton Three+ look decent:

I have a pair of Triton 3+ and think they're great. Probably better than LS50's which I've auditioned but not in my room. Also keep in mind the Triton 3+ basically does have a subwoofer built-in and already calibrated to the mids-highs. They create an excellent sound stage - in my room, at least. Here's another measurement from Soundstage Network. It's a bit different than the one you posted and correlates more closely to the measurements I've taken with REW. You can see their measurements show it going strong down to around 30Hz.

Image source