Change my Neumann KH120’s?

[dickiefunk]

P.S. : one more thing. For mixing, post production and mastering, assuming you have yet a rather good little system, never forget that's the best tool isn't the system nor the room, but your own ears and experience. You always can improve things by yourself.
It's like for photgraphers. You don't need always a top Leica or Hasselblad to take excellent pictures.

This is so true!

 

[Tovarich007]

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts on this. Yes the KH120's are really good monitors already. Yes the KH150's are a potential option but after doing some more research these seem to be more suited to mid-field monitoring? I think I would possibly lean more towards the KH120ii's due to the size of my space.

Yes, true, but KH150 can be used at moderate levels as a nearfield too.

I don't think there is a real gap between the "old" KH 120 and the new KH120II. Just a few hz and Db more in the bass and calibration. IMO, and especially at very short distance like you do, it's not worth the change and the expense.

Calibration is far from being night and day, especially at very short distance, as i wrote before. I experienced it (not for mixing, but for listening)
And you can use an external competent cal software for much cheaper than a new set of speakers plus MA1.

And like many, I've heard about more bugs or reliability problems on the new Neumanns (that's not dramatic, risk zero never exists and Neumann is always a serious company, but electronics made of Dsp and very compact cladd D amps add complexity and sometimes temperature issues).

I think Neumann will solve this promptly, maybe it already has done it, but in any industries (audio/video, other electronic industries, cars, etc.) this digital complexity is a proven fact.

Analog filtering isn't the best theorical solution, but it always works fine and the technology is mastered by good makers since a very long time.

So, IMO, or you stay like you are (frankly, your system's not bad at all) or you jump to the KH150.

 

[dasherzx]

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts on this. Yes the KH120's are really good monitors already. Yes the KH150's are a potential option but after doing some more research these seem to be more suited to mid-field monitoring? I think I would possibly lean more towards the KH120ii's due to the size of my space.

I've used the 120ii and 150 in a similar placement like your attached image with no issues. you'll get a bigger wow with how much lower it goes with the 150. might go over the table a little though. but id still do the 150

 

[dickiefunk]

Thanks for the helpful insights. I think one of the main problems I'm having (apart from the obvious room situation) is integrating the EVE TS108 sub with the KH120's. When I engage the various crossover filter settings on the EVE sub it sounds like there is a dip in the higher bass/low mid's where certain bass guitar notes sound scooped out. When I'm just using the KH120's by themselves I can hear all these notes clearly and much more evenly. I'm finding I actually prefer not using having any of the crossover filters engaged at all when adding the sub.
It will be interesting to see how all these different settings measure in REW later! I may find myself being really surprised with the results.

If I still feel I would get better results changing my speakers after the measurements I would either just go the KH150 route or change the sub to the KH750. If the KH150 would give me the extra depth of bass but with slightly improved imaging, lower distortion, higher overall spl and the option to use their MA1 should I choose that could be the way to go.

I have also been slightly tempted by the PSI A17m's as these sometimes come up secondhand for the price of the KH120 ii's and are generally highly regarded in the pro audio mixing world.

I have also considered the IK Multimedia Precision 5/6 mk2 with their new sub as this also has room calibration. However, I'm not seeing as many favorable experiences with these as the Neumann's.

 

[dickiefunk]

Hi,

I’m trying to measure my monitors using REW and a Behringer ECM8000 mic but for some reason REW isn’t recognising the mic calibration files? The ECM calibration files are ODS and RTF formats.
Could anyone help me with this please?

 

[solderdude]

ODS to TXT - online-convert.com

Convert ODS to TXT in high quality by using this online file converter.

document.online-convert.com

Omzetten RTF naar TXT (Online en Gratis) — Convertio

Beste manier om in seconden je RTF- naar TXT-bestanden te converteren. 100% gratis, veilig en makkelijk te gebruiken! Convertio — geavanceerde online tool voor het oplossen van problemen met alle bestanden.

convertio.co

Cal Files Preferences

 

[Jimi Floyd]

Hi,

I’m trying to measure my monitors using REW and a Behringer ECM8000 mic but for some reason REW isn’t recognising the mic calibration files? The ECM calibration files are ODS and RTF formats.
Could anyone help me with this please?

change them to plain .txt files

 

[dickiefunk]

Thankyou guys. That’s very helpful info. I’ll get this done and then post my measurements over the next few days.

 

[dickiefunk]

Hi,

I've done a quick measurement of my KH120's + TS108 in my listening position and this is the result

 

[dickiefunk]

Here is a measurement with just the KH120's and no sub

 

[tripey]

I got the KH750 a couple months ago and just now calibrated it with the MA1. I've spent a couple days in the newly calibrated room listening to reference songs and worked on one mix for a couple hours. My initial rough mix is translating quite well. The sub and the ma1 calibration did an awesome job of smoothing things out in the room. My room is heavily treated so the ma1 just finessed the finishing touches. Im using my kh750 with a pair of dynaudio bm5a 1st Gen. I'm in a less than ideal room. I'm in finished basement with 6.7' low ceilings. The bass is not over powering. I actually don't even notice the sub. It integrates seamlessly with the speakers.
You already have the kh120s. I suggest trying it the kh750 and the ma1 as theyre made to work with each other. Use REW's room simulator to get a starting point of where to put the sub.
You should consider acoustic treatment. The treatment in my room did the majority of the work.

Here's the calibrated response of my room. I still have to use rew to get a better graph but I'm pretty pleased with everything right now.

 

[dickiefunk]

Thanks, yes I’m torn between the KH750 sub or change to a single pair of KH150’s.

I’ve been tweaking a few filter settings on my KH120’s and Eve TS108 sub to try and get a flatter measurement but I don’t like the sound anywhere near as much.

 

[tripey]

The filter settings won't fix your phase issues and deep nulls. I had to reposition my setup to get a good starting point. I really resisted this but I'm glad I did. You indicated you don't want to rearrange your room. Consider seeing how your frequency response is in REW room simulator. Play around with it and move things around in there.

 

[tripey]

Oh hey, how long have you owned the kh120s? I'm curious about their longevity. Might eventually pick up a used pair from somebody reputable.

 

[dickiefunk]

Thanks. Unfortunately I don't have any other viable positions for the desk due to the vocal booth in my room. I've tweaked the filters a little and am getting this measurement now. I'm not sure what the phase response data means? I'm not sure this an improvement or not?

I've had my KH120a's for around 12 years without a single issue.

 

[dickiefunk]

As I can't change the sub positioning I'm wondering if the Palmer Orbit 11's "might" give me better results in my room. The dual built in 8" drivers that product lows down to the sub bass frequencies are built into the sides of the cabinet. Also the cabinet is cardioid at certain frequencies which "may help"? However, I really love the sound of the KH120's so the Palmers would have to be pretty special for me to change.

Beyond this having just a single pair of KH150's with the MA1 setup may be my only alternative after room treatment?