Change my Neumann KH120’s?

[Liftro]

Yes this is good advice. However, I was hoping to go secondhand as I’ve seen the KH750 go for as low as £700-£800 secondhand.

Mine was second-hand. It worked perfectly. The only problem I had in the long run was visual: some cracks appeared in the cabinet. It didn't affect the sound at all. Then I sold it again because I needed the money, and the new owner is delighted with the sub, as far as I know. It's a good option for testing equipment.

 

[respice finem]

But remember MA-1 is not included (IIRC).

 

[Ultrasonic]

If this is purely a bass problem I'd recommend you get a miniDSP Flex and a UMIK-1 microphone to properly integrate your current subwoofer, and smooth out the bass response to dramatically reduce the room mode problem.

Bass traps are the other route to try to manage your bass problems but they need to be BIG to achieve much and at the lowest frequencies you'd likely still end up needing some form of parametric EQ anyway.

There is no such thing as a sub being too much for the room btw. Properly integrated and the in-room response smoothed out, bigger/more capable subs basically just go even deeper and reduce overall distortion.

 

[Liftro]

But remember MA-1 is not included (IIRC).

I got mine with MA1.

 

[respice finem]

YMMV it seems - in Germany there is a version with and a version without:

Neumann Monitor Alignment Kit 1

Neumann Monitor Alignment Kit 1; bestehend aus 1x MA 1 Automatic Monitor Alignment und 1x KH 750 DSP Subwoofer; Einmess-System zur Analyse der akustischen Umgebung für Stereo-Setups mit Neumann KH 80 DSP sowie alle analogen (nicht-DSP-basierten)...

www.thomann.de

Neumann KH 750 DSP

Neumann KH 750 DSP; Aktiver Studio Subwoofer mit DSP; Bestückung: 10" Ultra Long Excursion-Woofer; Leistung: 256 W; Maximalpegel: 105.0 dB; Frequenzgang: 18 - 750 Hz (+ 3 dB); 4 verschiedene LFE-Modi wählbar; Trennfrequenz: 80 Hz; FIR...

www.thomann.de

 

[dickiefunk]

Thanks for the info everyone.
If I went with the KH750 + MA1 and used it in the same position as my current Eve TS108, would this still be a better option than to use a single pair of KH120mk2/KH150 + MA1 or the PDP MUM-6 with the IK ARC Studio?

 

[respice finem]

It should. But it's kind of a guess...

 

[a4eaudio]

Yes this is good advice. However, I was hoping to go secondhand as I’ve seen the KH750 go for as low as £700-£800 secondhand.

If you go secondhand and don't like it, you can probably re-sell them and not take too much of a loss.

 

[nat1]

Before spending so much on a subwoofer, why not get a 100 euro measurement mic and see if your integration issues are easily fixable by free software like REW/EqualizerAPO?

I know this forum is the church of Neumann/Genelec but I take issue with the blind recommendations of their subwoofers. There's objectively nothing special about the KH750 at 1500 euros. Of course if you don't want to deal with the learning curve of doing your own measurements, you have to pay the exorbitant fee.

Just seems excessive to buy a 1500 euro subwoofer to fix room modes, though.

 

[dickiefunk]

I am borrowing a Behringer measurement mic tomorrow and will do some room measurements with REW. I don’t really want to spend £100+ on a measurement mic if I may end up getting the KH750DSP + MA1. This will hopefully give me a rough idea of what’s going on?

 

[dickiefunk]

On a different note, I’ve seen a number of reports of KH120-II and KH750-DSP develop faults. Also Neumann won’t let local technicians have the schematics for repairs. Instead, you have to send the speakers back and have Neumann replace the boards at a hefty price!
This is slightly putting me off wanting to invest more money into Neumann monitors no matter how much I love the KH120’s!

 

[Liftro]

On a different note, I’ve seen a number of reports of KH120-II and KH750-DSP develop faults. Also Neumann won’t let local technicians have the schematics for repairs. Instead, you have to send the speakers back and have Neumann replace the boards at a hefty price!
This is slightly putting me off wanting to invest more money into Neumann monitors no matter how much I love the KH120’s!

It also makes me think twice before buying new Neumanns...

 

[Liftro]

I sold mines KH120A after 8 years and they worked perfectly. I think the new ones fail very quickly...

 

[Jiraya369]

Hi,

At the moment I’m using a pair of Neumann KH120’s for mixing in a small home recording studio. My room is a slightly odd L shape which isn’t ideal but I’ve had to build a vocal booth,
Here is a photo of the room



The KH120’s have generally been really good speakers for mixing though not perfect. I also have an Eve TS108 sub which is really good but I can’t get it to perfectly integrate with the KH120’s. I do find the sub useful for checking sub frequencies and for impressing clients However, I can’t get away from the fact that I can hear certain room mode build up at various frequencies.
As a result, I’m considering selling my KH120”s and Eve TS108 and picking one these options
This is what considering :-

-1: Neumann KH120

-2: Neumann KH150

-3: Present Day Productions M.U.M. 6

what would you recommend!s

if there are room modes then you need to get a mic and calibrate. It's not exactly your speaker's fault.

 

[dickiefunk]

I sold mines KH120A after 8 years and they worked perfectly. I think the new ones fail very quickly...

Yes my KH120’s are around 11 years old and work perfectly. However I’ve seen a number of users post on different forums they have had issues with the KH120ii and KH750dsp.

 

[dickiefunk]

if there are room modes then you need to get a mic and calibrate. It's not exactly your speaker's fault.

Yes definitely.

 

[Tovarich007]

Considering the picture of your installation you have posted, I'm not sure sure at all you need a sub for mxing. It's a very nearfield listening. The KH120 goes IMHO low enough for most of a mix work. Go lower won't improve much things, maybe not at all, as good as the sub integration could be,, there will be with a little bit less coherence at your very short distance. Your KH120 is already a very good accurate little speaker, going pretty low for its size.
As we used to say in french : " le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" (Best is the enemy of good)

If you have the money and really want lower, better and more flexible, go for the excellent KH150 with MA1 for a precise calibration and EQ (but at a short listening distance don't expect a night and day improvement).
That's quite an expensive money gap anyway. It's up to you.

 

[Tovarich007]

P.S. : one more thing. For mixing, post production and mastering, assuming you have yet a rather good little system, never forget that's the best tool isn't the system nor the room, but your own ears and experience. You always can improve things by yourself.
It's like for photgraphers. You don't need always a top Leica or Hasselblad to take excellent pictures.

 

[dasherzx]

-kh750 with the ma1
-cheap 15 inch sub with umik would work too. or in my case i actually calibrated my kh150s with the ma1, and then the subwoofer with the umik-1 seperately.
-something like a minidsp flex to set crossovers and dirac would also work
but id go option 1 since 2 and 3 are more for hobby guys.

 

[dickiefunk]

Considering the picture of your installation you have posted, I'm not sure sure at all you need a sub for mxing. It's a very nearfield listening. The KH120 goes IMHO low enough for most of a mix work. Go lower won't improve much things, maybe not at all, as good as the sub integration could be,, there will be with a little bit less coherence at your very short distance. Your KH120 is already a very good accurate little speaker, going pretty low for its size.
As we used to say in french : " le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" (Best is the enemy of good)

If you have the money and really want lower, better and more flexible, go for the excellent KH150 with MA1 for a precise calibration and EQ (but at a short listening distance don't expect a night and day improvement).
That's quite an expensive money gap anyway. It's up to you.

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts on this. Yes the KH120's are really good monitors already. Yes the KH150's are a potential option but after doing some more research these seem to be more suited to mid-field monitoring? I think I would possibly lean more towards the KH120ii's due to the size of my space.