Certain vocals irritate me. Anyway to reduce the irritation via eq?

[Pdxwayne]

I found vocal in many music recordings irritating. There is a certain sharpness to the voice that I don't like. Is there a way to know what freq range is responsible for it and then eq down a few dB of that range to reduce the sharpness? I think this perception of sharpness varies person to person, so I think I need to find that irritating range that is unique to me.

This one irritated me a lot:

I am fine with this:

Thanks!

 

[daftcombo]

Can you try: PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -5.0 dB Q 4.00 ?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Can you try: PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -5.0 dB Q 4.00 ?

I am not sure what "PK Fc" stands for....

But, I do know "5000 Hz Gain -5.0 dB Q 4.00".

I will try with my minidsp later today. Thanks!

 

[Cuniberti]

There is a certain sharpness to the voice that I don't like. Is there a way to know what freq range is responsible for it and then eq down a few dB of that range to reduce the sharpness?

The microphone is an AKG C12. It has a 5dB rise starting at 4k and peaking at 10K. Maybe it's just the wrong mic for this singer.

 

[Pdxwayne]

The microphone is an AKG C12. It has a 5dB rise starting at 4k and peaking at 10K. Maybe it's just the wrong mic for this singer.

Wow, would this mean I need different eq profile for different recorded song, based on the microphone?

Thanks!

 

[tmtomh]

It's difficult to know exactly where the problem might be, because there are many variables: the quality/ranges of the voices; the level of distortion in the original recording and production chain; the frequency response characteristics of the vocal mics used in the recordings; and the sonic characteristics of your speakers and room.

That said, my first move would be to play with modestly attenuating frequencies somewhere in the 3-4kHz range. I find that 2kHz is sort of the "AM radio" range - too much energy at that frequency makes things sound too midrange-heavy. At the other end, the 5-6kHz range can be an area where there's too much sibilance. In my experience (and to be clear I am just a listener, not a professional), a piercing or edgy quality usually lies between those two frequencies; hence my suggestion to start in the 3-4kHz range.

EDIT: @Cuniberti 's post is very interesting, and would suggest slightly shifting my recommended range from 3-4kHz up to 4-5kHz. Also, they raise a very good, more general point: microphones, certainly including vocal mics, are one part of the recording chain where engineers and producers (and sometimes artists) seem to really like to use the equipment to shape and color the sound for artistic purposes. It's probably no coincidence that the upper-midrange coloration of many vocal mics is not only an area that can produce edginess or harshness, but also an area where a built-in EQ bump can produce enhanced "presence," allowing the vocals to "bite" and cut through the mix for a feeling of startling realism. It's a fine line.

 

[daftcombo]

I am not sure what "PK Fc" stands for....

But, I do know "5000 Hz Gain -5.0 dB Q 4.00".

I will try with my minidsp later today. Thanks!

Just PK=peak (not high-shelf nor low-shelf) and Fc=Frequency cut. So you're good!

 

[Pluto]

What you are reacting to is, in all probability, something running far deeper than mere EQ.
The first clip is an excellent example of an incongruous style of voice recording that has become increasingly popular in recent years. The orchestral sound, though possibly close mic'd, has been quite nicely set back with artificial reverberation; an approach fairly typical of most film score recording. The vocal sitting atop the band is sufficiently close to the mic for the listener to hear the singer's dentures rattling and something about the vocal is on the verge of distortion. Were the vocal set back into the mix somewhat with a little HF rolled off it would sit in the same acoustic space as the band and your reaction would be rather different.

The other piece sounds well recorded although the band is still rather close for my taste. But at least the whole thing sounds like a coherent performance.

 

[Pdxwayne]

It's difficult to know exactly where the problem might be, because there are many variables: the quality/ranges of the voices; the level of distortion in the original recording and production chain; the frequency response characteristics of the vocal mics used in the recordings; and the sonic characteristics of your speakers and room.

That said, my first move would be to play with modestly attenuating frequencies somewhere in the 3-4kHz range. I find that 2kHz is sort of the "AM radio" range - too much energy at that frequency makes things sound too midrange-heavy. At the other end, the 5-6kHz range can be an area where there's too much sibilance. In my experience (and to be clear I am just a listener, not a professional), a piercing or edgy quality usually lies between those two frequencies; hence my suggestion to start in the 3-4kHz range.

Thanks!

I got 5K suggestion earlier. If not working, will try 3-4 region.

 

[Pdxwayne]

What you are reacting to is, in all probability, something running far deeper than mere EQ.
The first clip is an excellent example of an incongruous style of voice recording that has become increasingly popular in recent years. The orchestral sound, though possibly close mic'd, has been quite nicely set back with artificial reverberation; an approach fairly typical of most film score recording. The vocal sitting atop the band is sufficiently close to the mic for the listener to hear the singer's dentures rattling and something about the vocal is on the verge of distortion. Were the vocal set back into the mix somewhat with a little HF rolled off it would sit in the same acoustic space as the band and your reaction would be rather different.

The other piece sounds well recorded although the band is still rather close for my taste. But at least the whole thing sounds like a coherent performance.

Not sure how to correctly describe it. But I found that many recordings have a certain type of overtone that I don't like. A little "metallic" overtone that got picked up when sang too close to the microphone?

For example

 

[audiofooled]

I found vocal in many music recordings irritating. There is a certain sharpness to the voice that I don't like. Is there a way to know what freq range is responsible for it and then eq down a few dB of that range to reduce the sharpness? I think this perception of sharpness varies person to person, so I think I need to find that irritating range that is unique to me.

This one irritated me a lot:

I am fine with this:

Thanks!

IMHO, these kinds of things should have been corrected in the first place during recording session. Not every mic is suitable for everyone's voice, but at least the distance from the mic can be easily adjusted! For me, the vocal harshness in such recordings can happen in the 500 Hz range. I'm no expert, though.
This is just as an example:

Two very different voices, but look at 0:55. The DISTANCE! Even though video may not be closely related or even relevant, there are simply powerful vocals out there, but also trained in how to control it.

In your first example, the guy is simply shouting vowels at point blank! Edit: Do I hear an autotune aswell?

 

[Pluto]

Not sure how to correctly describe it. But I found that many recordings have a certain type of overtone that I don't like. A little "metallic" overtone that got picked up when sang too close to the microphone?

Just like you hear when you stick your ear 10cm from her mouth. Take the mic back to 50cm or so and the problem goes away. Alternatively, rolling off just a little HF accomplishes much the same result. What even experienced so-called recording engineers fail to realise is that the mic position is crucial in getting the right ratio of vowel sound to consonant sound.

Also, the closer the mic to the mouth, the more the level changes with the singer's natural (and inevitable) movement. Pull the mic back and the level bumps are smoothed-out with less need to use EQ and compression to correct the concomitant faults.

It all boils down to the fact that we are used to listening to human voices at a typical distance >1m. When you go too close you accentuate certain properties of the voice that we don't always find appealing.

 

[Pdxwayne]

IMHO, these kinds of things should have been corrected in the first place during recording session. Not every mic is suitable for everyone's voice, but at least the distance from the mic can be easily adjusted! For me, the vocal harshness in such recordings can happen in the 500 Hz range. I'm no expert, though.
This is just as an example:

Two very different voices, but look at 0:55. The DISTANCE! Even though video may not be closely related or even relevant, there are simply powerful vocals out there, but also trained in how to control it.

In your first example, the guy is simply shouting vowels at point blank!

My phone have a 9 band eq sliders. I never tried it before and decided to check it out.

2K, 4K, 16K adjustment did not help.

8K at 10db down is the most successful in taming the sharpness!

 

[Cuniberti]

Wow, would this mean I need different eq profile for different recorded song, based on the microphone?

Thanks!

Not really, EQ may be getting applied during the recording, mix, and mastering. What you are doing is tuning the recordings to your own system, ears and taste.

 

[Vict0r]

How's your room? Maybe you've got some 8k treble ringing going on.

 

[Pdxwayne]

How's your room? Maybe you've got some 8k treble ringing going on.

My observation earlier was with my AKG 371 headphones with my phone.

I will try with my living room setup later this afternoon, after my kid is done with school (still doing remote learning at home).

Indeed, my living room stereo setup can get more irritating than headphones.

 

[audiofooled]

Not really, EQ may be getting applied during the recording, mix, and mastering. What you are doing is tuning the recordings to your own system, ears and taste.

+1

 

[paulraphael]

I've always complained more about harshness in high frequencies than most of my friends. It's not system-dependent. Usually shows up in vocals, but also guitars and other instruments.

I've figured out how to tame it by spending lots of time with parametric eq. I've found that any music that's peaky in the 2khz to 5khz range sounds like shattered glass to me. An area where some other people say that any dips take the life out of the music. So I pay attention to this when eqing anything.

Was interesting to learn that my problem really isn't about treble as much as upper midrange / presence range.

 

[audiofooled]

My observation earlier was with my AKG 371 headphones with my phone.

I will try with my living room setup later this afternoon, after my kid is done with school (still doing remote learning at home).

Indeed, my living room stereo setup can get more irritating than headphones.

In my room, as I mentioned, it helps to lower 500Hz range for this kind of vowel harshness. Or listen to a different song.

 

[ZööZ]

My first reaction would have been to take down around 11k for 4-5db which works for me when there is too much sibilance (not sure if it is a right word for it, the frequency shiftts a little depending on the gear, obviously problems in different frequencies but seems to float around 8 to 12k) but all the answers make sense to me and makes me think that sibilance isn't the problem here.