Center channel!

[AlzalzS]

Hello and greetings,

When I added a center channel it resulted with mixed reviews. I noticed that the center is much quieter in dB than the other speakers front/left and surrounds. At that time I could not find that balance where I can hear from the front speaker(center) although it was the one nearest to me.. making the speaker as though it’s not even there because the other speakers were too loud(is this called phasing?). I questioned the surrounds. I had this issue where I needed to correct the db of all the individual speakers to allow the center to be heard. It was to my surprise that, once unmuffled, the speaker is now the main of my system. To the point that I don’t think I need any of my extras in the 5.1 setup and could easily just listen from the center! With each channel running at +12dB and with the volume turned up, I did sense that the sound quality was anything more than garbage noise, well not completely…But it was frustrating. The question remained: what do I do with this sound system??? Once I realized that I should isolate and check the center, that’s when I decided to turn down the other channels and I now enjoy the center and wonder if the extra surrounds should go to the garbage. Center + sub.. I mean.

( I was also even wondering if I took the center speaker model I use, buy another 2, and set them up as left/ right as well. Doubt it for the time being but when looking for speakers in the future, I think I would chose the center channel speaker to audition before anything.)

Adding the extra speakers and resulting in phasing each other out is the exact opposite of what I wanted. It’s either the surrounds suck as a speaker and the center is a better quality speaker, or it’s the placement, or maybe a good center speaker is all we need really.

 

[sweetchaos]

What speakers do you have?

 

[AlzalzS]

Bose vcs10 and model 100s jbl pb10 sub

 

[sweetchaos]

It’s much worse than I thought.

Consider better speakers.

I have a “passive/active speaker recommendation” thread, where I recommend center speakers.

UPDATE:
Let me explain my thoughts for recommending other speaker (which won't have these issues).

All I'm saying is that this speaker (Bose vcs10) has issues due to the positions of drivers.

It has four of 2.5" drivers (called Twiddler drivers). I'm guessing this is a full-range driver, but considering it's size, it won't have much bass. But the problem is that this is not a normal center-channel configuration. So depending on where you sit, you'll likely experience very different sound.

Distance between drivers and poor crossover design cause off-axis cancellation (lobing) at side seats.

See this video:

Read this as well:

Pros & Cons of Various Center Channel Designs

This article and YouTube Video takes you on a tour of the most common center channel driver arrangements and discusses their strengths and weaknesses to help make the best selection for your needs.

www.audioholics.com

The surround speakers, on the other hand, have a single 4.5" full-range driver. Which won't have any issues.

 

[AlzalzS]

View attachment 263236
It’s much worse than I thought.

Consider better speakers.

I have a “passive speaker recommendation” thread, where I recommend center speakers.

No way I really like the center, I’m not bashing it! I’m saying I ‘finally’ got the center to sound good as a surprise to me as compared how the system as a whole sounded before and as to how long I’ve had this center since purchase, which is not long really maybe 6 months. It’s the Bose 100s that I’m mad at right now.

Did you even read my post? Or are you just jumping to the “what’s speakers do you have?” Comment

 

[Benedium]

Which AV Receiver?

 

[AlzalzS]

It’s a denon 1801

 

[Benedium]

Assuming you have a subwoofer, what is the avr/speaker crossover setting? Depending on the room, it could be set anywhere from 80hz to 150hz maybe. Also consider different placement location for the subwoofer. Lots of variables heheh.

 

[Benedium]

Also you can test different playback sound modes? Such as stereo or multichannel or surround mode... you might also be able to turn off the surround speakers without unplugging the cables. Look up the user manual. Have fun and don't give up on any speaker just yet. Loads to learn.

 

[AlzalzS]

No clue but if you really wanna know the subwoofer has a crossover between 50-150hz, I am somewhere in between that but can’t say 100%, maybe 100hz or so. Also I use LFE for acoustic effect, regular is to boomy for the music I listen

 

[AlzalzS]

Also you can test different playback sound modes? Such as stereo or multichannel or surround mode... you might also be able to turn off the surround speakers without unplugging the cables. Look up the user manual.

You want me to try to put my center on a left or right channel to test the sound quality?

The surrounds are already turned down at a certain minus dB level

I do believe that on multichannel mode, if I don’t use the other channels and just have the center, it will go to 6ohm 105watts vs 8ohm 70watts stereo, perhaps this is why the center sounds better. Who knows. If it’s the ohms that are making a difference thennnnn idk maybe a higher end receiver. Not gonna bother doing that until the receiver dies. Also this receiver I have is quite easy to use, no manual necessary but I have already gone through it , no remote control anymore.

 

[Benedium]

You want me to try to put my center on a left or right channel to test the sound quality?

The surrounds are already turned down at a certain minus dB level

I do believe that on multichannel mode, if I don’t use the other channels and just have the center, it will go to 6ohm 105watts vs 8ohm 70watts stereo, perhaps this is why the center sounds better. Who knows.

Uh no not what I meant.
I'm just saying... test your front left and right speakers alone first, try to get the settings right for music stereo playback. Surround speakers are in the rear by the way.

 

[Benedium]

I see.. OK maybe this is beyond me haha. But for movies center speakers are most important yes.

Just share my avr settings for your comparison...
Elac ub52 front: Left +1db, Right 0db.
Elac uc52 center: 0db
Elac dbr62 surround: Left +0.5db, Right 0db.
Subwoofer x2: -12db each

Listening position is about 1.9m from front and 1.5m from surrounds. Other than raising crossover settings to 80hz (from 40hz) for all speakers, I did not change the levels after audyssey calibration.

 

[AlzalzS]

Left -2db, right -2db
Center +12db
Surrounds -2db
Subwoofer -7db (I use LFE)

 

[Benedium]

Crossover settings for all speakers in the avr?
You should turn the subwoofer crossover knob to max or LFE though. Then set crossover for each speaker on the avr instead.

 

[AlzalzS]

I will go through the manual and see what I can about this question.

Sigh I found a good manual but it’s in German.
Seeing as how I don’t have the remote control, I’m gonna have to order one real quick, the user manual has some tweaking stuff I didn’t see before. I’ll come back when I have the control, can’t do anything without it.

Thank you for going through helping me this far!

 

[Benedium]

Consider changing center levels to 0db and reducing the other channels instead? Your +12db scares me heheh.

 

[AlzalzS]

Consider changing center levels to 0db and reducing the other channels instead? Your +12db scares me heheh.

I’ll see, but wouldn’t the power usage of the receiver not change at the desired loudness whether I change or not? I think maybe it would give me better lower volume option

 

[Benedium]

I’ll see, but wouldn’t the power usage of the receiver not change at the desired loudness whether I change or not? I think maybe it would give me better lower volume option

I'm not sure. But my settings, which I shared above are the result of my denon AVR's audyssey auto calibration. Unless you are expert on the workings of the avr, I'd keep things simple and follow the manufacturer's intended use as I have. Also no harm changing things to learn something new. You can revert to your old settings later.

 

[JSmith]

denon 1801

Sigh I found a good manual but it’s in German.

This site has the manual and service manual, if you create a free account;

Denon AVR-1801 AV Surround Receiver Manual | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

JSmith