Cell phones VS DAP players.....

[Kinglizard]

I can't understand
why some can't understand a DAP from a cell phone and earbuds..
I think it's because they probably never owned a DAP player..
I never had a cell phone that sounded anything like a DAP player.

 

[IsaacOscar]

I never had a cell phone that sounded anything like a DAP player.

Do multiple blind tests or no one here will believe you.
If you can detect the difference blind, this is likely due to a bad phone, your DAP being louder, or having some equalizer or other DSP effect.

A good dongle should get you good audio quality on your phone (I've tried many different dongles on my phone and computer, and the only noticeable difference is volume or if I use a PEQ which can definitely makes things better (or worse))

 

[Kinglizard]

Do multiple blind tests or no one here will believe you.
If you can detect the difference blind, this is likely due to a bad phone, your DAP being louder, or having some equalizer or other DSP effect.

A good dongle should get you good audio quality on your phone (I've tried many different dongles on my phone and computer, and the only noticeable difference is volume or if I use a PEQ which can definitely makes things better (or worse))

I'm not talking s cheap $200 DAP..
I'm talking a good quality $1000 DAP.
I could definitely tell the difference..
I have ears for music.

 

[solderdude]

Connect a phone via a good DAC and amplifier that can pack a punch and compare that to a good DAP (price does not matter) and the sound will be indistinguishable.

A good DAP usually has considerable higher output power than a phone (+ dongle) especially in Europe where a phone must max out at 0.5V.
DAP's are purpose made, have longer battery life, usually are less buggy.
Phones are more versatile and most people carry one anyway, have access to streaming, can take pictures, play games, navigate etc while enjoying music.

I have 2 FiiO DAPs I use as good as daily and prefer that over using a phone but I'm sure others will prefer expensive DAPs or phones.
Live and let live ... as long as you enjoy the sound and can play loud enough and it does what you want/need it to do its all good isn't it ?

 

[oleg87]

A modern DAP is a mediocre phone with the dongle built in.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I'm not talking s cheap $200 DAP..
I'm talking a good quality $1000 DAP.
I could definitely tell the difference..
I have ears for music.

Consider whether cognitive bias is in play when comparing devices.

 

[RandomEar]

I'm not talking s cheap $200 DAP..
I'm talking a good quality $1000 DAP.
I could definitely tell the difference..
I have ears for music.

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[holbob]

I'm not talking s cheap $200 DAP..
I'm talking a good quality $1000 DAP.
I could definitely tell the difference..
I have ears for music.

I have ears for bovine excrement.

 

[tccalvin]

A DAP can solve the mandatory resampling going on in Android and iOS phones. That's the only reason why I would consider one. But I likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a DAP and a resampling phone.

 

[obsessive9119]

A DAP can solve the mandatory resampling going on in Android and iOS phones. That's the only reason why I would consider one. But I likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a DAP and a resampling phone.

Doesn't that depend on the app you're using? Neutron, for example, has direct USB access AFAIK.

 

[tccalvin]

Doesn't that depend on the app you're using? Neutron, for example, has direct USB access AFAIK.

It does. Some apps can bypass the SRC, some can't. I mainly listen to Spotify and YouTube, and those do get resampled.

 

[obsessive9119]

why some can't understand a DAP from a cell phone and earbuds..

I've seen you use this phrase in a couple of threads. No one is saying that the earbuds that (sometimes) comes with your phone, plugged into a phone's headphone socket, sound good.

What people (including me) are saying is that a quality dac/amp (dongle or otherwise) connected to your phone will be indistinguishable from a DAP in terms of sound quality.

Of course, the dac/amp needs to meet your spec requirements to drive your headphones. But there is no fundamental technology that a DAP has access to that a portable dac/amp doesn't. If you think there's a huge difference, it's up to you to explain why you think that.

 

[IsaacOscar]

A DAP can solve the mandatory resampling going on in Android and iOS phones. That's the only reason why I would consider one. But I likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a DAP and a resampling phone.

On Android at least this can be modified by your device vendor, or a custom ROM/root.
I can't tell the difference between my 48kHz phone and 384kHz PC, so I haven't bothered.

 

[solderdude]

Again... the biggest difference between a (half decent) DAP and phone (with or without dongle) is the output power which usually is MUCH higher and often balanced output so can more easily drive a wider variety of headphones to impressive levels.
Also DAPs usually can play more formats, have much longer playing time and in most cases start-up quicker and are more easy to operate.

Sound quality is not different (unless trickery is used).

 

[obsessive9119]

Also DAPs usually can play more formats, have much longer playing time and in most cases start-up quicker and are more easy to operate.

Of course, this is mostly a matter of opinion/preference and I have no issues with people using a DAP if that suits. But the apps I use can play any format I need, my phone is always on so startup time is a non-issue, and ease of operation is app-dependent.

One thing my phone can do that a I think a DAP could struggle with us run tailscale and stream music off my home server when I'm out and about.

 

[IsaacOscar]

Also DAPs usually can play more formats

This is trivially fixable with an app.

Regardless, OP said they like their DAP due to improved audio quality....

(I personally like the convenience of having a single device, and I have a very nice small and sturdy dongle; but if I was running out of battery or storage space regularly, an extra device may be worth it)

 

[tccalvin]

Sound quality is not different (unless trickery is used).

I haven't been able to find any measurements of the resampling algorithms on modern Android and iOS though... depending on the quality of the filter, there might be an audible difference.

 

[solderdude]

Regardless, OP said they like their DAP due to improved audio quality....

And that could very well be the case when an insensitive or inefficient headphone is connected to a phone (or phone+dongle ?) where the output will be clipping at 'normal listening levels' where the DAP will not even clip at even louder levels.

For this reason I would not dismiss the observation.

When both are compared at the same level that is below the clipping level of the phone then sure ... in a blind test it will be hard to prove an audible difference.

 

[obsessive9119]

Are there any DAPs that measure better than the T71?

 

[solderdude]

Are there any DAPs that measure better than the T71?

Probably not but you would need to add a phone to this portable DAC/amp.
2 devices opposite one a single DAP.
But if you, besides a DAP also need to carry a phone this would probably be preferable over an expensive DAP.