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CEA-2010 Subwoofer Testing Master Thread

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hardisj

hardisj

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I didn't do that. I don't have any intention on doing that.

The Klipsch "failed test". Which means it didn't pass the tests per the standard(s).

If someone has the Daytons you mentioned and are willing to send them to me for testing, I'd be happy to test them. I contacted Dayton directly this afternoon with a link to my video and explained many were asking if I would include their speakers. This was the reply:
Hello,

I am sorry, we do no provide review units.
 

spacevector

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Are the limits for distortion for A and B tests shown in the results sheet? I could not find it but may have overlooked. It would be nice to have that as a reference in the sheet if not already.

Also, how to tell from these results whether the port chuffs or not and how much?
 
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Are the limits for distortion for A and B tests shown in the results sheet? I could not find it but may have overlooked. It would be nice to have that as a reference in the sheet if not already.

Also, how to tell from these results whether the port chuffs or not and how much?

Are you talking about the thresholds they are held against? If so, no, I have not listed them in the sheet. If someone has the time and wants to make those values available in spreadsheet form I would be happy to incorporate them. I started to do that but just never finished because most people who want to know that level of detail will find it.


No notes on port chuff; they all chuff near their tuning frequency. The Klipsch and Yamaha were also noisy in the 50/63Hz regions. So, a global note.
 
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One thing I forgot to mention was all these subwoofers had built in limiters that was very apparent at the middle frequencies of the tests (63Hz, namely).
 

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I really am itching to know how the ~$150 Dayton sub-1200 performs, as that is my go to subwoofer recommendation and I want to know if I’ve been leading people astray (I also recommend the ~$200 sub-1500 for those that want a bit more oomph and can’t do dual 1200s). For ~$160 they also have a 10” low profile subwoofer to go under or stood up against furniture.

I posted this earlier in this thread, but Brent Butterworth has tested both the Daytons to CEA-2010 standards here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...V9DAHSdIZ_ke0MxwH6ekt3vTIlYOJU/htmlview#gid=0
 

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hardisj

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Thanks!

I wonder why many 80Hz results have a Not Measured label.

Nice to see a REL measured as well.

Remember, the CEA-2010-A spec only specifically calls out 20-63Hz. He may not have tested 80Hz for that reason, but later expanded his tests to include 80Hz.

I don’t know that’s the case. Just a guess.
 

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I didn't do that. I don't have any intention on doing that.

The Klipsch "failed test". Which means it didn't pass the tests per the standard(s).

What's the implication of a failed test?
Does it mean for example, you play a 19hz tone, the subwoofer will just do nothing and nothing is heard? Or it plays but at too high distortion / too low SPL so it fails the test? And the failure of a test is a result of the sub amp's limiters?
 

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If someone has the time and wants to make those values available in spreadsheet form I would be happy to incorporate them.
In your table for B results it states 16Hz is not part of the protocol, but in the standard it lists 16Hz as the lower bound option for the fundamental, so I am confused:
E71DC7E3-7759-45F1-93D1-9C3231F7776B.jpeg



EDIT: Nevermind, 16Hz is not the lowest center frequency, but the lowest frequency in the band with 20Hz as the center.
 
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Willem

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I am quite fascinated by the Elac SUB1010 although it does not yet seem available on the European market. My use case would be to extend the low frequency response of a pair of rather good desktop speakers in my home office (Harbeth P3ESR). The Elac does not really go very low, but that would not be a concern for me. However, sound quality would be. Is low frequency extension the only limitation of these cheap subwoofers, or is quality also impaired? I ask because on the one hand I have a strong suspicion that with subwoofers room interaction is far more important than the sub itself, but on the other hand I also briefly compared a small REL Quake II with the B&W PV1d in my main system and the latter seemed far more precise. Admitedly, this was not a properly controlled test, but I wonder.
 

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I am quite fascinated by the Elac SUB1010 although it does not yet seem available on the European market. My use case would be to extend the low frequency response of a pair of rather good desktop speakers in my home office (Harbeth P3ESR). The Elac does not really go very low, but that would not be a concern for me. However, sound quality would be. Is low frequency extension the only limitation of these cheap subwoofers, or is quality also impaired? I ask because on the one hand I have a strong suspicion that with subwoofers room interaction is far more important than the sub itself, but on the other hand I also briefly compared a small REL Quake II with the B&W PV1d in my main system and the latter seemed far more precise. Admitedly, this was not a properly controlled test, but I wonder.
Indeed it's unfortunate the Elac sub isn't available in Europe.

@hardisj are you planning on testing more subs? If so, maybe we could give you some names that are available in Europe too. :)
 
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What's the implication of a failed test?
Does it mean for example, you play a 19hz tone, the subwoofer will just do nothing and nothing is heard? Or it plays but at too high distortion / too low SPL so it fails the test? And the failure of a test is a result of the sub amp's limiters?

The distortion level was too high even with very little voltage input to the amplifier.
 
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@hardisj are you planning on testing more subs? If so, maybe we could give you some names that are available in Europe too. :)

I am.

I don't live in Europe (obviously ;)) so you guys will have to help me assemble a list of subs that are popular in your area.
 
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I am quite fascinated by the Elac SUB1010 although it does not yet seem available on the European market. My use case would be to extend the low frequency response of a pair of rather good desktop speakers in my home office (Harbeth P3ESR). The Elac does not really go very low, but that would not be a concern for me. However, sound quality would be. Is low frequency extension the only limitation of these cheap subwoofers, or is quality also impaired? I ask because on the one hand I have a strong suspicion that with subwoofers room interaction is far more important than the sub itself, but on the other hand I also briefly compared a small REL Quake II with the B&W PV1d in my main system and the latter seemed far more precise. Admitedly, this was not a properly controlled test, but I wonder.

I just think it's a combination of cost and size.

Dealing with raw drivers, there aren't many 10-inch woofers with the ability to dig low that are inexpensive enough to be paired with an amplifier, placed in an enclosure, and shipped to distributors for the final sale price of $130, while still leaving profit on the table. I don't know what the cost of the raw woofer in the Elac (or these others is) but I can't imagine them being more than $30 and still leaving profit for everyone. Probably less. Most of the 10-inch woofers I see in the car audio market (where everyone wants to go boom boom; I mean, I used 10's as midbass woofers) with the ability to go in a relatively small box and play down in the 30's are much more than $30.
 
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Erin, please change the title and start using the current standard name.

https://standards.cta.tech/kwspub/home/
https://www.techstreet.com/publishers/285894

There is no CTA-2010-A specification. Only CTA-2010-B. And CTA-2010-B is (apparently) interchangeable with CEA-2010-B. So for the sake of confusion, I decided to simply use CEA-2010 as an all-encompassing nomenclature for my tests. Unless you can get all the other outlets who provide CEA-2010-A testing to also comply, I am going to leave things the way they are.
 

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Now that the 10-inch woofer shootout is complete I'm ready to start thinking about the next round of testing.

Keep in mind:
  • I have to pay for these or someone has to be willing to send me one to test.
  • I have reached out to 3 manufacturers so far (Dayton, Monoprice, & Bic) and none have offered to send units for review (and I'm not asking for keepers; I am asking them specifically for loaners).
  • Each test takes about 2 hours (give or take).
Be appreciative; don't be demanding. No issues so far here. But there is always someone who has entitlement. Don't be that person. If you are going to be that person, pay for something and send it to me to test. Otherwise, shut up your face. ;)

Okay... moving on...

The one thing I liked about this past round of 10-inch budget woofers was it's nice to have a bunch of similar subs (size and price) ready to test all together because it makes my life easier. Plus, it provides a very clear and simple apples-to-apples comparison for those who are shopping in this price range. Not everyone can afford a $1k SVS subwoofer. In fact, the majority of my friends who ask me for advice on speaker purchases are typically limited to a few hundred bucks at most.

The feedback I've gotten so far has been very positive; people are appreciative of me testing something other than a subwoofer they can never afford and are OK with getting something that doesn't perform like something 3x the price. Therefore, I'm thinking more along the lines of doing a 12" subwoofer shootout. Maybe $400 or less. I would like to test 4-5 (more than that, and it becomes a logistics issue in my home). If you can help either through donations or you can send one in for testing that would be great.

So, here are the ones I am thinking about. If you have suggestions, put them in.

Crutchfield has a few on sale right now that have substantial discounts, like these:
KLH Windsor 12 (on sale from $598, down to $299)
Klipsch Reference R-112SW (on sale from $649 to $399)


And, if you happen to have a subwoofer outside of this scope but still want to see it tested then let us all know. Maybe we can come together to get donations to cover shipping. Again, I'd love to test some bad boy subwoofers but I don't have the means to do so myself.
 

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Now that the 10-inch woofer shootout is complete I'm ready to start thinking about the next round of testing.

Keep in mind:
  • I have to pay for these or someone has to be willing to send me one to test.
  • I have reached out to 3 manufacturers so far (Dayton, Monoprice, & Bic) and none have offered to send units for review (and I'm not asking for keepers; I am asking them specifically for loaners).
  • Each test takes about 2 hours (give or take).
Be appreciative; don't be demanding. No issues so far here. But there is always someone who has entitlement. Don't be that person. If you are going to be that person, pay for something and send it to me to test. Otherwise, shut up your face. ;)

Okay... moving on...

The one thing I liked about this past round of 10-inch budget woofers was it's nice to have a bunch of similar subs (size and price) ready to test all together because it makes my life easier. Plus, it provides a very clear and simple apples-to-apples comparison for those who are shopping in this price range. Not everyone can afford a $1k SVS subwoofer. In fact, the majority of my friends who ask me for advice on speaker purchases are typically limited to a few hundred bucks at most.

The feedback I've gotten so far has been very positive; people are appreciative of me testing something other than a subwoofer they can never afford and are OK with getting something that doesn't perform like something 3x the price. Therefore, I'm thinking more along the lines of doing a 12" subwoofer shootout. Maybe $400 or less. I would like to test 4-5 (more than that, and it becomes a logistics issue in my home). If you can help either through donations or you can send one in for testing that would be great.

So, here are the ones I am thinking about. If you have suggestions, put them in.

Crutchfield has a few on sale right now that have substantial discounts, like these:
KLH Windsor 12 (on sale from $598, down to $299)
Klipsch Reference R-112SW (on sale from $649 to $399)


And, if you happen to have a subwoofer outside of this scope but still want to see it tested then let us all know. Maybe we can come together to get donations to cover shipping. Again, I'd love to test some bad boy subwoofers but I don't have the means to do so myself.
The Dayton and the BIC are for sure the most recommended.
 
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