CEA-2010 Subwoofer Testing Master Thread

[KaiserSoze]

While I agree with the problems you mention when using the same driver for both CB and BR , using different drivers for the comparison also introduces a new variable which will be also prone to criticism. So in the end it will always be an "apple and peas" comparison, but as you say it would be still interesting to see more of those tests and also studies on the audibility of group delay.

You are looking wrongly at the use of different drivers. There is some validity to the idea that the comparison can't be meaningful if the drivers are different, but the logical consequence of this is that there isn't any possible way to have a meaningful comparison between a pair of subs where one is ported and the other isn't. It is absolutely essential for the two drivers to be different, because they absolutely need to be optimized for the type of enclosure. The view that the two drivers should be the same is a sort of knee-jerk view that isn't derived from a good understanding of speaker design. The bottom line, though, is that there just isn't any way to have a meaningful comparison between a single pair of subs, one ported the other not. As q3cpma indicated, the only meaningful sort of empirical study of the performance of sealed vs. ported subs would be a large-scale study. The idea that you could take a ported sub and do something that would suggest, "Now let's see how this sub performs if it is sealed instead of ported", is a patently bogus idea.

 

[thewas]

It's not me personally that sees it like this but as I wrote the criticism I would expect to come from such a different driver comparison although it is sensible due to the reasons you mentioned.

Still I find it interesting that in almost all closed vs ported sub comparisons I have read similar tendencies are described by the listeners which could reduce the random chance that the Thiele & Small parameters were always more suitable for one type. Of course we don't know how much the placebo effect influence was, so more scientific testing should be done.

 

[hardisj]

question for you dudes...

This was intended to be a master thread where I would update when I completed a new test. But, I'm thinking with all the various discussion here (which is fine, BTW) it would be easy for the updates to get buried. Is it cool if I give each new review its own thread? I don't want to have a thousand threads here but at the same time, I don't think my initial idea of using this as my 'catch all' is going to work like I had hoped.

 

[hardisj]

Also, regarding the ports, here's an updated graphic... another sneak peak, if you will.

Sealed vs 1 Port Open vs 2 Ports Open

 

[whazzup]

question for you dudes...

This was intended to be a master thread where I would update when I completed a new test. But, I'm thinking with all the various discussion here (which is fine, BTW) it would be easy for the updates to get buried. Is it cool if I give each new review its own thread? I don't want to have a thousand threads here but at the same time, I don't think my initial idea of using this as my 'catch all' is going to work like I had hoped.

Yes, each review with its own thread will make searching by title possible, plus probably google's algorithm can home in on subject title too, though that's only my guess.

 

[barfyman362]

question for you dudes...

This was intended to be a master thread where I would update when I completed a new test. But, I'm thinking with all the various discussion here (which is fine, BTW) it would be easy for the updates to get buried. Is it cool if I give each new review its own thread? I don't want to have a thousand threads here but at the same time, I don't think my initial idea of using this as my 'catch all' is going to work like I had hoped.

I think you should either make new threads or perhaps just constantly edit the first post in this thread linking to the exact page you posted new results? I just don't like feeling like I have to go through dozens of pages of replies to find the info I want.

 

[KaiserSoze]

question for you dudes...

This was intended to be a master thread where I would update when I completed a new test. But, I'm thinking with all the various discussion here (which is fine, BTW) it would be easy for the updates to get buried. Is it cool if I give each new review its own thread? I don't want to have a thousand threads here but at the same time, I don't think my initial idea of using this as my 'catch all' is going to work like I had hoped.

I don't have a sense of what is the best way for you to proceed; all I have is a sense of shame and regret for the diversion for which I am primarily responsible. I think that I and others have taken this little sidebar discussion as far as we should, and that any further discussion of the complexities of comparing ported vs. non-ported enclosures should be taken up in a separate thread dedicated to that purpose.

 

[hardisj]

honestly, that sidebar doesn't bother me at all. I have contributed a lot of "odds and ends" to this thread as well. Something I didn't initially intend to do nor plan for. My thought when I started this thread was to update as I went along and just edit the OP. But I can no longer edit the OP which means I would have to get Thomas or Amir to do that and I hate to be a bother. I think it may just make more sense to let this thread kind of be a 'catch all' and then provide new reviews with a new thread where discussion about those results can be focused. I think it makes more sense to do that, now.

 

[hardisj]

I just deleted the FR and GD data/plots. With the new data being at a different resolution and sweep range than the previous set, there is no easy way to provide it where people can select and filter out what they want and have it graph in real time. I will have to figure out how to include those in my sheets at another time. But right now, it's a "nice to have" in the sheet that I don't have time for.

I have, however, included the .txt files for plotting the FR of my subwoofer measurements in a dropbox link provided in a tab in my google sheet. Between that and my reviews, that should be "good enough".

 

[hardisj]

I just wrapped up testing the Monolith THX 10. 7 hours to test 3 configurations (sealed Extended EQ, ported Extended & THX EQ).

At the rate the tests were going, I decided that I will not be testing every port configuration on the 12 and 15-inch versions. Nor will I likely test the "extended EQ" version. I just don't think there's really any reason to test all port configurations; the assumption is the results of those would fall in between the sealed and full ported. And the amount of time it would take to test all these configurations just isn't feasible. It would take me multiple days.

 

[whazzup]

Something I've always been trying to understand and correspond to measurements:
Is the 'musicality' of a sub related to the fact that the frequency response is more 'cone-shaped' than flat (with deeper bass extension)? Have heard many times REL subs are more 'musical', what does that mean?

 

[hardisj]

4 days' worth of measuring, re-measuring, validating and verifying and I am now done testing all the monoprice subwoofers.

26 total tests posted: 13 speaker tests with both the CEA/CTA-2010-A and -B. Each Monolith subwoofer was tested in sealed and full ported configurations with both the Extended EQ as well as THX EQ. My results mostly jive with others' (once you account for how they present it at distance and peak vs RMS level).

I have been going back and forth on lumping all the monoliths in to a single 20-30 minute YT video review or breaking them out. I think simply for views, I'll have to split them out. But, I should be able to boil them down in to 10 minutes or less, each.

I'll post here when the data is published to my sheet.

 

[hardisj]

Had to share this. The combined size of the 4 Monoprice tests is > 7GB.

 

[hardisj]

Dudes. My mind is blown. I posted the 'budget 10 subwoofer shootout' on YouTube about 3 weeks ago. Today it hit 40k views.

When I posted it, I honestly expected to maybe get 2k views. Tops. I had no idea people like/are interested in cheap subwoofers to this degree.

 

[sweetchaos]

Dudes. My mind is blown. I posted the 'budget 10 subwoofer shootout' on YouTube about 3 weeks ago. Today it hit 40k views.

When I posted it, I honestly expected to maybe get 2k views. Tops. I had no idea people like/are interested in cheap subwoofers to this degree.

Can you show the demographic (which Country has the most users, etc.) for this video, from youtube analytics?
Would be cool to understand the audience.

 

[hardisj]

US with about 48%.

Canada, UK with about 5%.

Germany, India with about 3%.

Then scattered from there.

 

[sweetchaos]

Your youtube rank is increasing rapidly.
https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/hardisj

You're gaining subscribers in 1st column, and views in 2nd column:

If you extrapolate the views (at the current rate), then in 1 year (from the air date of the video), which is 340 days from now, you'll gain an additional 1653views/day*340days=562,020 views.

To compare things further, if you compare JoeNTell's budget shootout video, which got 355k views in 626 days. That's only 567 views/day. So overall, your video is averaging about 3x more traffic than his.

 

[GDK]

Your youtube rank is increasing rapidly.
https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/hardisj

You're gaining subscribers in 1st column, and views in 2nd column:
View attachment 87400

If you extrapolate the views (at the current rate), then in 1 year (from the air date of the video), which is 340 days from now, you'll gain an additional 1653views/day*340days=562,020 views.

To compare things further, if you compare JoeNTell's budget shootout video, which got 355k views in 626 days. That's only 567 views/day. So overall, your video is averaging about 3x more traffic than his.

Why limit it to linear growth? Maybe, with the benefit of word of mouth, the increase will be exponential, similar to the r factor measure of Covid-19 (but, um, without the disease).

 

[MZKM]

there is no easy way to provide it where people can select and filter out what they want and have it graph in real time

Can’t help with the different resolution [See EDIT]

For showing/hiding graphs:

1. Make a new tab and list the speaker whose graphs you want to select from. I would simply INDEX it (transpose it depending on what orientation you want).
2. Insert a Checkbox for each speaker in an adjacent cell.
3. Make a new tab. Hz in column A, SPL/values for speaker 1 in Column B, SPL/values for speaker 2 in Column C, etc.
   1. Not a regular copy though, make it an IF statement where it copies the data only if the corresponding checkbox is selected, and it’s blank when unchecked (checkboxs are True when checks and False when not, so that’s easy).
4. Chart those values, don’t make a separate tab, keep it on the tab made in step 1.

However, having infinite people able to simultaneously make live changes to the same shared document is not a good idea:

1. Create a duplicate sheet but have the data be copied over from the master sheet, using IMPORTRANGE; make sure your share settings for the master is that anyone can view.
2. Go to Share and change the link from /edit?usp=sharing to /copy.
3. Share that link instead.

The downside is that you can’t just view it, you have to sign in to Google and make your own version.

I had the same dilemma with my spreadsheet that allows you to filter the speakers options down; this is what I am doing:

So they can go to my Google Site and see the embedded live master sheet. If they actually want to filter the data, they can click the button up top which goes to the copied version, where they add the copy to their own Google Drive and thus allows them to filter the spreadsheet without effecting what others see.

EDIT: For the different frequency resolutions, simply make the Hz value for every frequency from 20 to 20000. Then, for the SPL/values for the speakers, instead of a basic copy in the IF statement, include a MATCH formula as well, so it only copies over the SPL/values when its corresponding Hz value is adjacent.

 

[hardisj]

To compare things further, if you compare JoeNTell's budget shootout video, which got 355k views in 626 days. That's only 567 views/day. So overall, your video is averaging about 3x more traffic than his.

Joe is a good guy. With a solid following. If I could get those kind of numbers I think that would be great not only for myself but also for the furthering of the science of our hobby.