CEA-2010 Subwoofer Testing Master Thread

[Willem]

Dealing with raw drivers, there aren't many 10-inch woofers with the ability to dig low that are inexpensive enough to be paired with an amplifier, placed in an enclosure, and shipped to distributors for the final sale price of $130, while still leaving profit on the table.

I appreciate that it may be hard to make a profit, but that is not what I am interested in. I accept that cheap subs don't dig deep and may not go very loud, and for me they do not need to, but how good is what they do within their frequency limitations? Is their 40 Hz sound at fairly modest levels worse than the 40 Hz sound of a far more expensive sub that goes down well below 20 Hz, and loudly so? Am I only paying a price in low frequency extension or also in quality?

 

[ModDIY]

Very good question Willem, I'm in the same situation, I don't need a sub which digs at 20hz, but only an extension at 30-40hz to extend my new columns which dig less than my old ones.

In addition I do not have enough space for a sub with 12 "... yes the quality in terms of definition and low distortion is my first important criterion.

 

[Willem]

As I wrote earlier, in my case it is to extend the low frequency response of the excellent Harbeth P3ESR desktop speakers in my home office. That room is some 16 sq m, so blasting deep bass into it is pretty pointless. It is for enhancing the reproduction of jazz and classical music. I know from experience with my main system that a subwoofer can make a very worthwhile contribution but I do not want to spoil the high quality sound that I enjoy right now.

 

[hardisj]

I appreciate that it may be hard to make a profit, but that is not what I am interested in. I accept that cheap subs don't dig deep and may not go very loud, and for me they do not need to, but how good is what they do within their frequency limitations? Is their 40 Hz sound at fairly modest levels worse than the 40 Hz sound of a far more expensive sub that goes down well below 20 Hz, and loudly so? Am I only paying a price in low frequency extension or also in quality?

I misunderstood.

I cannot answer that question without further testing. But Brent should have enough to help.

 

[MZKM]

I appreciate that it may be hard to make a profit, but that is not what I am interested in. I accept that cheap subs don't dig deep and may not go very loud, and for me they do not need to, but how good is what they do within their frequency limitations? Is their 40 Hz sound at fairly modest levels worse than the 40 Hz sound of a far more expensive sub that goes down well below 20 Hz, and loudly so? Am I only paying a price in low frequency extension or also in quality?

Erin is also measuring group delay, and that is another aspect (making sure the deeper notes aren't lagging behind the speaker by too much). Another aspect would be the decay, which can be shown either as a waterfall plot or spectrogram.

So, the 3 main aspects are: having a clean signal, having a clean decay, and having good reaction time.

 

[LearningToSmile]

And, if you happen to have a subwoofer outside of this scope but still want to see it tested then let us all know.

It's out of scope more because of size(it's another 10-inch subwoofer) than price but JBL LSR310s. It's one of the few studio subwoofers that makes some sort of financial sense - $349 right now, sometimes $300, for unspecified "27hz" extension. Very curious what the actual performance looks like.

 

[ModDIY]

If we look at the delay group, the Sony has the best response below 40hz ... what do you think?

 

[Willem]

Another use case for these cheap subs would be as a second (or even third and fourth) sub, combined with a much bigger and more expensive one, to fill in nulls. Archimago recently posted some fascinating results of just such an experiment: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html It looks as if with cheap additional subs one can have the benefits of multiple subwoofers for not that much extra money.

 

[whazzup]

Saw this comment about the Elac's filter (I'm assuming he's referring to the crossover?)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3BEIV8FNDGNOR/

@hardisj If you still have the Elac, is that something you can verify? But if inconvenient, no worries!

 

[sweetchaos]

So, here are the ones I am thinking about. If you have suggestions, put them in.

• Dayton 12" ($150)
• Bic F12 ($210)
• Polk Audio AM8505-A ($250)
• ELAC Debut 2.0 DS10.2 ($230)

Crutchfield has a few on sale right now that have substantial discounts, like these:
KLH Windsor 12 (on sale from $598, down to $299)
Klipsch Reference R-112SW (on sale from $649 to $399)

Yes to first 4.
KLH Windsor 12 => Not sold in Canada. Don't care about this one, honestly.
Klipsch Reference R-112SW => It's like $1k in Canada. Sweet discount in US though. Don't mind either way.

Like others have mentioned, a great deal for 10" sub:
- JBL LSR310s (10", on sale for $350usd now on bhphoto, sweetwater, jbl.com, amazon.com, etc) (was $240usd in Nov 2019, so maybe wait for a similar deal again? your choice)

My preferred list of 12" subs i'd like to see tested (in no particular order):
- Monoprice 12" (Product # 9723) ($99usd) (most reviewed sub on monoprice with 322 reviews with 4.5/5 stars)
- Klipsch R-120sw (currently selling for $375usd, but was $250usd last week on amazon.com) (sold on amazon.ca and 2 major retailers in Canada: BestBuy.ca and Visions.ca, so very popular)
- Polk HTS 12 (currently selling for $360usd, but was around $300usd last year) (sold on amazon.ca and 2 major retailers in Canada: BestBuy.ca and Visions.ca, so very popular)

I didn't expect the 12" shootout to be so soon! You're the man!

 

[Webninja]

This is a very useful test, and I hope you can find a way to get loaners. I’d be interested in 12” subs from HSU, SVS and Rythmik, but those are closer to $600.

I would be interested in seeing what the best ROS (Return on SPL) price point would be. Plus all the great discussions on multiple subs (are 4 $300 subs better than 2 $600 subs).

If I do buy a sub soon, I’ll be sure to send to you first.

 

[hardisj]

I have reached out to 3 manufacturers so far (Dayton, Monoprice, & Bic) and none have offered to send units for review (and I'm not asking for keepers; I am asking them specifically for loaners).

Someone from Monoprice got back with me and will be sending out the $99 12-inch along with their 10/12/15-inch monolith subwoofers. Not sure when. I will be sending them back once they have been tested.

 

[whazzup]

Someone from Monoprice got back with me and will be sending out the $99 12-inch along with their 10/12/15-inch monolith subwoofers. Not sure when. I will be sending them back once they have been tested.

If nothing else, I'm sure you'll still get a good workout out of these.

 

[LearningToSmile]

their 10/12/15-inch monolith subwoofers.

Nice, those seem pretty solid and they might end up being pretty relevant to EU residents - Monoprice seems to be ramping up distribution here(though the only subwoofer I think they offer so far is the cheap 8 inch one) and if the Monolith subwoofers became available they could disrupt the market a bit.

 

[hardisj]

If nothing else, I'm sure you'll still get a good workout out of these.

My back already hurts from the Revel F226Be I got in for testing. And those are only about 50lbs. :/

I legit may need to use some donation money to buy a handtruck to haul these subs around. Especially if this subwoofer testing continues on.

 

[sweetchaos]

Erin, you've mentioned CEA-2010 everywhere, except 2 places, where you wrote CTA-2010 instead:
1. Site
"More can be read about this in the CTA-2010-B specification."
2. Spreadsheet, Foreword tab
"More can be read about this in the CTA-2010-B specification."

Sherlock Holmes in the house!

 

[hardisj]

Yea, I stated that specifically because one can download the CTA spec for free. If I had stated "More can be read about this in the CEA-2010-B specification" then people would google CEA and find the $92 version and balk, rather than finding the free version and reading that.

However, as I said earlier, I am sticking with the naming convention in my tests to CEA because of all the damn overlap and underlap with other sites' testing vs the merging of the CEA/CTA.

Go Sherlock Holmes them. Make them get their sh*t together.

 

[Willem]

Do we have data or subjective impressions on the audio *quality* rather than extension of these bargain subs?

 

[richard12511]

My back already hurts from the Revel F226Be I got in for testing. And those are only about 50lbs. :/

I legit may need to use some donation money to buy a handtruck to haul these subs around. Especially if this subwoofer testing continues on.

Are you gonna a do a video review of the Revel?

 

[hardisj]

Are you gonna a do a video review of the Revel?

Yea, that's the plan. I did that little intro one I posted earlier (not sure if you saw it; linked below). I measured them yesterday. Took all dang day and I destroyed my back in the process.