CD vs Downloads, promise to love & cherish till the day you die?

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I am 67. It takes me about 30 minutes to re-tag a classical rip. It takes me about 10-12 seconds to wander over to the bookcase, choose the CD and put it in the CD player. So I would need to play a CD over 100 times before it was more convenient to have ripped and tagged it. I have around 4000 CDs, not many will get played over 100 times in my lifetime.
If I had started tagging when I first started buying CDs maybe it would seem less pointless.

Wow! That is pretty quick for a trip to the shelf, to the player and back to your seat. You must be a sprightly old dude and wear your track shoes.

For me, it is not the distance, jewel box and disc handling or the insertion into the drawer or even the time that all takes, a minute or two, not seconds, in my case. And, whatever you do, don't drop it on the carpet and get fuzzy dust all over it! And, God forbid that finger smudges, etc. need a cleaning before playback. Or, worse, when it starts skipping or refuses to play after sitting back down.

The big issue is knowing what I have, and, also locating it on the shelf, which can often add many more minutes. Sure, my classical albums/discs have always been on the shelf in meticulous order by composer, with composers arranged chronologically by the date of their demise, keeping musical periods together. Collections and multi-composer discs screw that up, of course, as do more obscure composers for which there is only one disc. They get lost sometimes. Pop, jazz, etc. are much less a problem simply arranged by artist name.

Still, it was not too bad until the number of discs grew from hundreds to thousands. Now, I am seeing the payoff of the tagging effort with multidimensional searching by composer, by artist, by orchestra, by genre, etc., etc. And, tagging typically takes me much less than 30 minutes per disc. 5-10 minutes is more usual, using partial metadata already supplied on the disc and by quickly copying individual tag data values from other discs already in the library, like composer name, artist name, etc. Classical library taggers, like MusiChi or even JRiver, the latter with just a few custom classical tag fields added, minimize typing, improve tagging consistency and streamline the tagging effort in many ways.

 

[Sal1950]

I am 67. It takes me about 30 minutes to re-tag a classical rip. It takes me about 10-12 seconds to wander over to the bookcase, choose the CD and put it in the CD player. So I would need to play a CD over 100 times before it was more convenient to have ripped and tagged it. I have around 4000 CDs, not many will get played over 100 times in my lifetime.
If I had started tagging when I first started buying CDs maybe it would seem less pointless.

You gents have lost me here.
I get that tagging gives you a searchable data base so you can locate music using many different questions. But your making the whole thing complicated to get this flexibility.
I they're on the shelf, you only have one way to search, however you choose to arrange them. So yes it's fast, but also lacking all the features of tagging.
Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Wombat]

MusiCHI Tagger: http://www.musichi.eu/index.php/musichisuite Scroll down to Tagger section.

I was looking around for a library system for ripped music and saw this one which has a Classical music tagging feature(available separately). I don't know if it can be used in conjunction with other music storage systems.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You gents have lost me here.
I get that tagging gives you a searchable data base so you can locate music using many different questions. But your making the whole thing complicated to get this flexibility.
I they're on the shelf, you only have one way to search, however you choose to arrange them. So yes it's fast, but also lacking all the features of tagging.
Maybe I'm missing something?

Yes, it is often difficult to remember how I chose to arrange them.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

MusiCHI Tagger: http://www.musichi.eu/index.php/musichisuite Scroll down to Tagger section.

I was looking around for a library system for ripped music and saw this one which has a Classical music tagging feature(available separately). I don't know if it can be used in conjunction with other music storage systems.

It can. I use the MusiCHI tagger a lot but Jriver for organization and playback.

 

[NorthSky]

To me it's the difference between what I see on my laptop's screen and what I see on my mind. One way or the other I'll get there, and both journeys complement well each other.

 

[Wombat]

It can. I use the MusiCHI tagger a lot but Jriver for organization and playback.

Kal, how is that done?

 

[Frank Dernie]

MusiCHI Tagger: http://www.musichi.eu/index.php/musichisuite Scroll down to Tagger section.

I was looking around for a library system for ripped music and saw this one which has a Classical music tagging feature(available separately). I don't know if it can be used in conjunction with other music storage systems.

I gave away my PC when I retired and didn't need it for work any more so musichi is out.
I used iTunes first having preordered an iPod when it was announced to save carrying a flight case of CDs all over the world on my weekly travels. I have bought Amarra, JRiver, Audirvana, a Meridian Control 15 running Sooloos and tried others including Roon.
I have SongKong which is supposed to help but I have not managed to get it to do what I want (yet) so I haven't let it loose on either of my bigger libraries and have a test library on my laptop for it, but life is too short and I usually just end up putting a CD or LP on. I fear I am more quickly bored than is normal.
To be honest I lose the will to continue most of the time when the choice is between dicking about on a computer with the inevitable wait for an update (which is rarely an actual up grade IME) rather than actually just playing a piece of music I want to listen to.
I used a nice simple old fashioned system whilst my Devialet was away having boards updated. I love the Devialet and its remote with a proper volume control but it was a nostalgic relief to have the old system up and always running and doing what I wanted without delay and computers, NAS or anything else needing to be switched on.

 

[Wombat]

I gave away my PC when I retired and didn't need it for work any more so musichi is out.
I used iTunes first having preordered an iPod when it was announced to save carrying a flight case of CDs all over the world on my weekly travels. I have bought Amarra, JRiver, Audirvana, a Meridian Control 15 running Sooloos and tried others including Roon.
I have SongKong which is supposed to help but I have not managed to get it to do what I want (yet) so I haven't let it loose on either of my bigger libraries and have a test library on my laptop for it, but life is too short and I usually just end up putting a CD or LP on. I fear I am more quickly bored than is normal.
To be honest I lose the will to continue most of the time when the choice is between dicking about on a computer with the inevitable wait for an update (which is rarely an actual up grade IME) rather than actually just playing a piece of music I want to listen to.
I used a nice simple old fashioned system whilst my Devialet was away having boards updated. I love the Devialet and its remote with a proper volume control but it was a nostalgic relief to have the old system up and always running and doing what I wanted without delay and computers, NAS or anything else needing to be switched on.

I sometimes think of elderly care situations where the physical media storage space is problematic. Having the essential albums on digital storage makes sense thus. Touchy subject but real.

 

[Dismayed]

If you mainly buy classical CDs ripping it to a computer is a source of frustration and irritation because the standard tagging strategy only favours popular music. By the time you have tagged and rearranged it so it actually appears in a logical place in the library you have spent more time than walking to the rack and playing the CD 20 times.
I gave up on it after years of frustration once I no longer needed the music on a portable for travel.
I still rip pop CDs as soon as I get them, but don't often have the streaming gadget switched on, since I use it so infrequently, so still not convenient

Yes, ripping and tagging classical CD's is a pain. But I do it because I can't find the CD slot on my iPhone.

 

[Sal1950]

I sometimes think of elderly care situations where the physical media storage space is problematic. Having the essential albums on digital storage makes sense thus. Touchy subject but real.

HEY, I resemble that remark.

 

[Sal1950]

Yes, it is often difficult to remember how I chose to arrange them.

That's the problem with Classical music. You got a million different performances, by 10,000 different artists, of the same song. ???
I don't get it.
I'm so confused. LOL

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, how is that done?

Open Tagger, locate file(s), tag them, close Tagger. Play with JRMC.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That's the problem with Classical music. You got a million different performances, by 10,000 different artists, of the same song. ???
I don't get it.
I'm so confused. LOL

Yeah but in pop music, the originals are always the same and the covers are rarely worth hearing.
But, how do you physically organize, discs with multiple performers consistently?

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

You gents have lost me here.
I get that tagging gives you a searchable data base so you can locate music using many different questions. But your making the whole thing complicated to get this flexibility.
I they're on the shelf, you only have one way to search, however you choose to arrange them. So yes it's fast, but also lacking all the features of tagging.
Maybe I'm missing something?

With pops, jazz, etc., arranging things on the shelf by artist or group name, maybe within genre, is pretty workable and sustainable even for a large library. So, that simplest of schemes is typically not a problem. If those non-classical genres were the bulk of my collection, I might not have needed to consider tagging at all.

But, it gets a lot more difficult with physical discs with classical as library size increases into the thousands of albums, as I said earlier. Typically, one is looking for a particular composition by a particular composer, and you may have several different performances of that composition by different artists. Many albums might also have compositions by different composers by multiple artists on the same disc. So, any hierarchical, one-dimensional arrangement on the shelf begins to break down as library size increases. I have "lost" albums or versions of a performance I knew I had, unable to find them easily in the shelf unless I stumbled upon them later.

Browsing and multidimensional searching in a competent classical library organization tool is, to me, much quicker and easier, well worth the time invested in learning the tool, developing the tagging scheme and filling in the tag data. The initial hurdle of ripping and tagging my starting library seemed formidable, and it took months. But, now, incremental batches of additions are relatively a snap. Friends of mine have built tagged libraries of over 10,000 discs across multiple media types using tools I helped recommend using a jointly developed tagging scheme in JRiver, but heavily influenced by MusiChi's scheme. My library, focused just on SACD for now, is more modest at between 4,000-5,000 discs, mainly classical, mainly Mch.

Also, being a lazy SOB, I really do enjoy controlling the search or browsing and playback process from my iPad, never leaving my listening chair. I can also browse ahead while the last selection is still playing, ready for the next selection in seconds. And, I never have to fumble with sometimes pesky jewel boxes, booklets that fall out, and smudge or damage my discs after the rip.

Ages ago at Cornell, I volunteered to do classical broadcast planning and programming for the student operated FM station. We had a huge computer printout sorted by composer and composition with timings of all the classical LPs in their very large library. It was then, at an early stage in computer technology, that I got my first ever inkling of how incredibly useful this new field of computer technology could be in a practical application like navigating their media library. My broadcast programming task would otherwise have been hugely difficult. Decades later from those primitive beginnings, I am using a much more sophisticated scheme with direct access to playback in the comfort of my own home. It is cool, and I would not be without it.

 

[Cosmik]

The expression "first world problem" springs to mind! I can't remember the last time I needed to plan my evening's listening indexed by assistant producer. I do occasionally use expressions like "label:decca" in Spotify, though.

 

[Sal1950]

Yeah but in pop music, the originals are always the same and the covers are rarely worth hearing

That's a fact.

But, how do you physically organize, discs with multiple performers consistently

That's an issue. In Clementine the album ends up in the Various Artists header. Thankfully most list the artists along with the song by track #. That't searchable.
Otherwise your screwed.

 

[Sal1950]

With pops, jazz, etc., arranging things on the shelf by artist or group name, maybe within genre, is pretty workable and sustainable even for a large library. So, that simplest of schemes is typically not a problem. If those non-classical genres were the bulk of my collection, I might not have needed to consider tagging at all.

Yes, I don't. I do add just a few such as genre, if the source was some special master (MoFi or such) Hi Rez, things like that I might be interested in search by. Do regret not adding a few details back during the mass ripping like what actual release a particular album was (label, catalog number, bar code, etc), all lost to history now.

Also, being a lazy SOB, I really do enjoy controlling the search or browsing and playback process from my iPad, never leaving my listening chair. I can also browse ahead while the last selection is still playing, ready for the next selection in seconds. And, I never have to fumble with sometimes pesky jewel boxes, booklets that fall out, and smudge or damage my discs after the rip.

That's me also. I was kind of forced into the ripping of my entire collection due to space limitations at my new retirement digs. Now I've found that a Godsend. I can sit in the lounger (or more oft than not lay in the couch) and access my entire library with a tap on the screen. Add that Clementine supports Spotify, my remote choices are near unlimited. Lovin 21 Century tech.

Friends of mine have built tagged libraries of over 10,000 discs across multiple media types using tools I helped recommend using a jointly developed tagging scheme in JRiver, but heavily influenced by MusiChi's scheme. My library, focused just on SACD for now, is more modest at between 4,000-5,000 discs, mainly classical, mainly Mch.

I wonder sometimes if these huge library's aren't more the result of the collecting becoming a hobby of it's own. How does one have the time to listen to all this? More than once? WOW.
For non-specialty stuff my collecting has slowed to a crawl. I can stream about anything I'd want to hear, only when something pops up I want to own in it's highest possible sq will I buy the CD or hirez download.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I wonder sometimes if these huge library's aren't more the result of the collecting becoming a hobby of it's own. How does one have the time to listen to all this? More than once? WOW.

Yes. JRiver tells me that, at the moment, I have 222.9 days of recordings if I listen 24 hours a day. Despite that, I have almost 2000 discs yet to be ripped and I keep buying more discs and files. (Does this comment belong in the obsession thread?)

 

[NorthSky]

No.