My current setup is a Marantz PM8005 integrated amplifier (2016) with a Denon DP35F Turntable (1987) and an Onkyo C-7030 CD player (2024) with Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II speakers (1999). The Marantz 8005 is a recent upgrade from my lack luster Technics SA-AX530 (1999). The sound I get when using the turntable is fantastic. The detail and clarity I hear on my albums is wonderful. The issue is with the CD player. The sound just seems flat and lifeless. The sound I get from playing 58 year old albums on my 38 year old turntable is much better than the sound out of the CD player. I am currently considering these 3 CD players - Denon DCD-900NE, Marantz CD-6007, Rotel CD11 Mkii. I would be very interested in any experiences with these 3 CD players.
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CD Player Recommendation - 600.00 to 700.00 Dollar range
- Thread starter Ant-R
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You're in the wrong forum if you think CD players have different sonic signature. Double blind tests almost from the introduction of the CD have shown no one can reliably determine a difference between CD players. The ergonomics are a different story. I've found that DVD players that 'remember' where you ended are useful especially for the 70+ minute compilations. Also good displays are helpful which are more often found on CD players.
As for the 'flat' sound you will likely have better results replacing the Ensemble and/or adding a powered subwoofer for the bottom end. The Ensemble only goes down to 50 hz or so. As for speaker recommendations check https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/. These will give an idea of good measuring and well liked speakers in the 600.00 to 700.00 Dollar range.
As for the 'flat' sound you will likely have better results replacing the Ensemble and/or adding a powered subwoofer for the bottom end. The Ensemble only goes down to 50 hz or so. As for speaker recommendations check https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/. These will give an idea of good measuring and well liked speakers in the 600.00 to 700.00 Dollar range.
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Unless something is seriously busted with your Onkyo, you're not going to get a different sound by changing CD players. They're audibly transparent to a fault.
Welcome to ASR, by the way. This is an objective forum, you won't find a lot of support for the notion that there can be mystical changes to the audio signal that can't be measured here.
Welcome to ASR, by the way. This is an objective forum, you won't find a lot of support for the notion that there can be mystical changes to the audio signal that can't be measured here.
Unless your Onkyo C-7030 is defective somehow, you won't get any different/better sound from another CD player.
Do you have a DVD player handy? Give it a try in place of your Onkyo CD player. If it sounds way different, that increases the odds that the Onkyo is broken. If it sounds a lot like the Onkyo, then the Onkyo is fine.
There's no need to spend $600 or more on a CD player unless you just really like the look & feel.
Do you have a DVD player handy? Give it a try in place of your Onkyo CD player. If it sounds way different, that increases the odds that the Onkyo is broken. If it sounds a lot like the Onkyo, then the Onkyo is fine.
There's no need to spend $600 or more on a CD player unless you just really like the look & feel.
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I should mention that your LPs likely have different mixes or masterings compared to your CDs, which may be what you're responding to. CD and digital media masterings in general often suffer from excessive compression (see: Loudness War). That's not an issue a new CD player can fix, of course.
CD players do have a "different" sound (S/N Ratio/Dynamic Range) but in terms of your using the built-in DAC (Analog Outputs). If your using digital to digital, its on your amp at that point.
Your Marantz amp appears to only have analog inputs. However your Onkyo CD player has digital outputs. I would try a cheap (~$100) SMSL/Topping DAC. These cheap SMSL/Topping DAC's can output 16-bit audio very well.
I never trusted those "audiophile" CD players. They claim "192khz/24bit" output but so can every Realtek-based computer from the last 15 years.
Your Marantz amp appears to only have analog inputs. However your Onkyo CD player has digital outputs. I would try a cheap (~$100) SMSL/Topping DAC. These cheap SMSL/Topping DAC's can output 16-bit audio very well.
I never trusted those "audiophile" CD players. They claim "192khz/24bit" output but so can every Realtek-based computer from the last 15 years.
DVDdoug
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I guess you're not bothered by the noise
Personally, I could live with the constant low-level noise... if I had to... But the occasional nasty clicks & pops always annoyed me, even in the analog days when it didn't seem to bother most people.Vinyl also has frequency response variations, both in the record and phono cartridge. Most of the old rock records I used to listen to had rolled-off highs and I was always foolishly upgrading or wanting to upgrade the cartridge instead if simply turning-up the treble. I think I was reading too many hi-fi magazines and I felt like my setup was inadequate or that I was "cheating". But I knew the real problem was the records because there were some good-sounding ones.
And you get occasional audible tracking distortion on some tracks.
The sound of the dynamic range ("dynamic contrast") comes from the recording. Records are sometimes better than the digital, especially if the digital is "loudness war" remastered to be constantly-loud and louder than everybody else. (There was a loudness war in the analog days but they didn't have the modern digital "weapons".)
The dynamic range capability of CDs is around 96dB and you're lucky if you can get 60dB from a record. It's limited by noise on the quiet-end. You can ALWAYS hear background noise between tracks on a record and sometimes during quiet parts. Digital has quantization noise which you can hear at 8-bits but not at 16-bits or better (under normal listening conditions).
There can be noise from the analog-side of the DAC in a CD player and some are better than others, but it's rarely audible.
Back in the day I had a Denon 1290. got amazing accolades both measurement and sound wise. I did replace it with an Accuphade DP65v and never heard a difference. They now go for $300ish it seems, and I am not sure CD players got much better since.
drewdawg999
Senior Member
I just bought an AWESOME CD player, the Sony CA70ES 5-disc changer. Yes Sony, the inventor of the CD, and their ES line which was their high-end audiophile line. Bought it as a backup so now I have 2, in case of emergency. Cost me $70 off eBay, shipping included, pretty nice deal. Back in the day it was over 300 bucks. It has a nice clean pleasant sound out of the RCA outs, but I'm using the optical out to a cheap SMSL DAC and the results are incredible. Main feature though is CD-text which I use for all the CDs I burn, nice to have all the track titles when skipping around, and album titles when changing discs.
JSmith
Master Contributor
It's worth keeping in mind some DVD and BD players don't support gapless CD playback.
JSmith
JSmith
Try running your current CD player's digital output through a DAC.
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respice finem
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LP and CD will not be identical. At the minimum, the bass is different, due to the inherent limitations of "needle tone".
Unless your player is somehow broken, any other player will have the same "problem".
Another catch when comparing players (or any audio devices) - if one is, even slightly, louder than the other, it will be perceived as better.
Unless your player is somehow broken, any other player will have the same "problem".
Another catch when comparing players (or any audio devices) - if one is, even slightly, louder than the other, it will be perceived as better.
That Marantz amp is pretty gutless (70W 8 ohm but only 100W into 4 ohm is the tell-tale there) and so won't drive those speakers optimally. Change the amp or the speakers. What's happening is the CD player is showing up that deficiency more than the record player will.
Changing the CD player won't make a difference.
Changing the CD player won't make a difference.
Have you seen or read about those speakers? The Marantz probably has more than enough power to fry those 4" woofers!
Yes I'm familiar with them - they are not an easy load for an amplifier - that doesn't mean the drivers won't blow if the Marantz is cranked to maximum but that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.
Do you have info on their sensitivity and/or impedance?
Regardless, what exactly *is* the "problem at hand," if the amp has more than enough power to fry the speakers?
Cambridge SoundWorks Ensemble II Speaker System Review price specs - Hi-Fi Classic
www.hifi-classic.net
''System impedance was less than 8 ohms from 55 to 1,000 Hz and below 5 ohms from 110 to 700 Hz.''
The amp cannot maintain voltage into low impedance loads. Not uncommon with Marantz amps. I'll lay money this is the issue.
A very typical impedance profile, combined with their measured 87dB sensitivity, makes them anything but a difficult load. Again, the Marantz amp has more than enough power to fry these speakers well before it runs out of power.
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