Carver TFM-xx Amplifiers

[Sal1950]

The 'numbers' and specs seem completely unspectacular but it delivers, 'in one word', a very 'smooth' sound.

Well so much for my plans to get a stack of Benchmark AHB2's
Going to get to searching for some Carver TFM35's
Gotta have that smoothness he talks about. LOL

 

[RichB]

Anyone who proudly writes such ridiculous text on his website and gets away with it gets a salute from me. You have to congratulate the man. He knows how to con.

One sympathizes. I found absurd the "Panasonic Plasma Infinite Black Pro" panel, that which could not turn off the pixels, so NOT black.
There is something about the term infinite that confuses marketers and reviewers.

- Rich

 

[Sandthemall]

@Sal1950

Well, if you want ultimate resolution...look elsewhere. The Carver TFMs were really modeled to deliver a tube-like 'air' in the upper treble. If you like the crispness of a shallow brass snare...or want the the brass section to come alive but not irritate? Then the TFMs are especially good at that. I think they get a bad rap because so many are in bad repair.

 

[beefkabob]

You may want to skip all the snark below and just learn about how audio actually works. This is a great place to do it. Welcome!

I've owned a Carver TFM 15CB. It was my first hi-fi amp. I ran a CD player directly into it using the gain knobs as volume controls.

I'm with you so far.

It sounded clean but when I finally put a decent preamp in front of it many years later, it was a completely different amp. Very smooth upper end and more 'meaty' sounding overall.

Aaaaand you lost me. I have no idea what meaty sounding is. Dropping steaks on the ground? Or smooth.

In 2008, I saw an eBay add for a TFM-35. This is the 250 wpc version of this amp. The ad had no pictures of the amp...just the box. It was sealed. The price was $450 for a new, sealed product. This was at a time when the same used product with pictures were going for $600+. So I took a risk.

Sounds like a nice price versus market price.

Yup completely NOS. It sounded great too. Same amazing upper end smoothness 'to die for'.

Still no idea what smoothness is.

By this time I had a Don Sachs model 2 preamp. When run with that preamp, it was amazing. Smooth, upper end just like a tube amp.

Oooooooh! You mean distorted. Poor frequency response too? Got it.

I next bought a Don Sachs Kootenay KT88 amp. Which arrived damaged but played nicely. When I alternated between that and the TFM-35, I realized that the Carver held its own against the Kootenay. The TFM-35 upper end detail is every bit as sexy as the Kootenay. The Kootenay had a slight edge in the midband.
But it was so very close. So I returned the Kootenay because of the damage.

Sexy Kootenay? This is a family site, sir!

The TFM-35 upper end detail forced me return my Primaluna Dialogue Premium. I got an EVO 400. The TFM-35 beat that in upper end detail by a smidge, but lost to the EVO's midrange, mid-bass and general fun factor.

I want fun gear!

The TFM-35 is by no means perfect but it's a good benchmark mark amp for upper end smoothness.

There's that smoothness again. A smooth, sexy Kootenay? Oh dear.

Lots of people simply don't know how good these things are out of the box.

Oh, I know what you're talking about. I love me that box.

Lot's of Nichicon caps and Toshiba transistors. Made in Japan. Will drive anything. Stable to 2 Ohms and they run cool.

Especially decades later? If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the parts matter less than the design.

The 'numbers' and specs seem completely unspectacular but it delivers, 'in one word', a very 'smooth' sound.

There's that word again. Smooth is distorted? Perhaps rolled off?

Take it to the right place for service and you'll love them.

Replace all those old and amazing transistors? I say.

 

[beefkabob]

I would like to see how old Carver gear measured. Nobody is close to Amirm? I'm curious but not $75 shipping each way curious.

 

[Sandthemall]

This site is a seriously weird place. Is it part of Scientology?

 

[RichB]

I would like to see how old Carver gear measured. Nobody is close to Amirm? I'm curious but not $75 shipping each way curious.

I have a Sunfire Cinema amp that is at the repair depot to be recapped.
It is delayed due to lack of parts, which seems a bit odd but that is what I am told.

After repair, it goes to ASR for measurement.

- Rich

 

[Sandthemall]

Now, have the people here been measured? Seriously, measure all of them. Then you'll know for sure.

Because once you measure someone, you'll figure them out. No need to talk to them even.

You'll definitely know who's a Beefkaboob and who's not.

 

[RichB]

This site is a seriously weird place. Is it part of Scientology?

Now, have the people here been measured? Seriously, measure all of them. Then you'll know for sure.

Because once you measure someone, you'll figure them out. No need to talk to them even.

You'll definitely know who's a Beefkaboob and who's not.

Yep, it is getting weirder by the post.

- Rich

 

[amadeuswus]

I have a Sunfire Cinema amp that is at the repair depot to be recapped.
It is delayed due to lack of parts, which seems a bit odd but that is what I am told.

After repair, it goes to ASR for measurement.

- Rich

Is your amp the 200W x 5 version? Looking forward to ASR's measurements, thanks. The published specs for the multichannel Sunfire amps show pretty high distortion (around 0.5% for the 200W x 7 version I have). The golfing panther's probably staying in the clubhouse....

 

[Sandthemall]

I was disappointed with the .5% distortion figure of my carver amp. Then I turned it on and listened to it. And I didn't think about it until now.

Well, at least it doesn't have an extra distortion filter circuit to get it to .0000007%.

Distortion, in audio terms, simply means coloration. Carver amp sound signatures at the time were designed to sound 'tube-like'. Tube circuits tend to add coloration.

Want ultimate resolution? Tubes won't get you there. But then people who buy tube gear or things that sound like tube gear aren't necessarily looking for that.

 

[amadeuswus]

I was disappointed with the .5% distortion figure of my carver amp. Then I turned it on and listened to it. And I didn't think about it until now.

Well, at least it doesn't have an extra distortion filter circuit to get it to .0000007%.

Distortion, in audio terms, simply means coloration. Carver amp sound signatures at the time were designed to sound 'tube-like'. Tube circuits tend to add coloration.

Want ultimate resolution? Tubes won't get you there. But then people who buy tube gear or things that sound like tube gear aren't necessarily looking for that.

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that I can hear the 0.5% distortion at peak power. I doubt it (and I never approach the amp's limit anyway). Other than some low level mechanical hum I hear from the amp itself, I don't have much to complain about.

 

[RichB]

Is your amp the 200W x 5 version? Looking forward to ASR's measurements, thanks. The published specs for the multichannel Sunfire amps show pretty high distortion (around 0.5% for the 200W x 7 version I have). The golfing panther's probably staying in the clubhouse....

This is the standard Cinema gran at 200 WPC x 5. It was buzzing at the speakers so I am having it repaired to make sure it is up to spec before ASR measures it. I did an A/B comparison to the AHB2 level matched using the MiniDSP to with 0.1 dB measured with a voltmeter.
Fast switching between them, they were very similar with the AHB2 having better detail at the high-end, symbols etc.
Still, remarkable for a 20 year old amp. These were very well built.

- Rich

 

[JayGilb]

I have a TFM-15CB, a TFM-45 and a large rack of the PM-1200,PM-900,PM-600 models which I keep in working order.
Not as low distortion than the new class D amps, but they have a great dynamics and high wattage output and a sound that I personally like.

Except for the TFM-45 which I have had for over 30 years, the rest have been purchased as for parts only and repaired.
I've fixed many, many amps over the years and the Carvers were the hardest to fix. Filled my shop with smoke a few times working on these.

 

[tjf]

Anyone who proudly writes such ridiculous text on his website and gets away with it gets a salute from me. You have to congratulate the man. He knows how to con.

Yes, let's not forget just what the "TFM" means in the TFM series of amplifiers....

In the 80's - Bob claimed to be able to clone the "Transfer Function" of the tonal balance of any of the highly prized sacred cow audiophile amplifiers

-- want a CJ tube sound, Bob has you covered,
-- want the slightly more detailed and analytical tube sound of an Audio Research? No prob, Bob has yer back there too...
-- Perhaps the solid bass response and bright trebles of a Krell? the TFM process can do it!

Finally, Bob decided that the his new line of "TFM" amps would have the "Tranfer Function" tonal character of a popular line of tube amps -- no names please, most thought it was ARC or CJ, anyway, the Holy Grail of solid state amplification realized, transistors as "good" as tubes....Let the orders commence!!!

The Carver Challenge

Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.

www.stereophile.com

Someday Bob (and his equivalent in the speaker biz -- Sandy Gross) will be enshrined in a "P.T. Barnum" style museum for luminaries of consumer electronics....
If you read thru the 5 pages of the Stereophile article about Bob's Transfer Function Amp challenge to Stereophile's staff, you'll see reader responses -- I suggest reading the letter from Harvey Rosenberg, of "Tube God" and "Futterman OTL Tube Amp" fame, this guy needs to be in the same P.T. Barnum tent along with Bob and Sandy!

Perhaps Bob is a Scientologist?

 

[amadeuswus]

For a while I was hoping to find the most powerful of Carver's A-series amps (from a series that was supposed to be his most linear, no funny-business voicing):

Carver A-760x Amplifier | Carver Sound and Audio - Carver Amplifier and Carver Audio Product Specs and Information

Carver Amplifier and Carver Audio Product Specs and Information

www.carversound.mobi

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, let's not forget just what the "TFM" means in the TFM series of amplifiers....

In the 80's - Bob claimed to be able to clone the "Transfer Function" of the tonal balance of any of the highly prized sacred cow audiophile amplifiers

-- want a CJ tube sound, Bob has you covered,
-- want the slightly more detailed and analytical tube sound of an Audio Research? No prob, Bob has yer back there too...
-- Perhaps the solid bass response and bright trebles of a Krell? the TFM process can do it!

Finally, Bob decided that the his new line of "TFM" amps would have the "Tranfer Function" tonal character of a popular line of tube amps -- no names please, most thought it was ARC or CJ, anyway, the Holy Grail of solid state amplification realized, transistors as "good" as tubes....Let the orders commence!!!

The Carver Challenge

Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.

www.stereophile.com

Someday Bob (and his equivalent in the speaker biz -- Sandy Gross) will be enshrined in a "P.T. Barnum" style museum for luminaries of consumer electronics....
If you read thru the 5 pages of the Stereophile article about Bob's Transfer Function Amp challenge to Stereophile's staff, you'll see reader responses -- I suggest reading the letter from Harvey Rosenberg, of "Tube God" and "Futterman OTL Tube Amp" fame, this guy needs to be in the same P.T. Barnum tent along with Bob and Sandy!

Perhaps Bob is a Scientologist?

I have a pair of M-500t amps....

 

[beefkabob]

TMF needs an R in front of it.

 

[amadeuswus]

This is the standard Cinema gran at 200 WPC x 5. It was buzzing at the speakers so I am having it repaired to make sure it is up to spec before ASR measures it. I did an A/B comparison to the AHB2 level matched using the MiniDSP to with 0.1 dB measured with a voltmeter.
Fast switching between them, they were very similar with the AHB2 having better detail at the high-end, symbols etc.
Still, remarkable for a 20 year old amp. These were very well built.

- Rich

With the Carver Crimson 275 review/measurement thread brewing elsewhere on ASR, I am now wondering whether RichB's repaired Sunfire Cinema Grand is going to tank on Amir's test bench. 40wpc before the fuse blows? Unsafe grounding? I hope not.

 

[RichB]

With the Carver Crimson 275 review/measurement thread brewing elsewhere on ASR, I am now wondering whether RichB's repaired Sunfire Cinema Grand is going to tank on Amir's test bench. 40wpc before the fuse blows? Unsafe grounding? I hope not.

Elvis is in the building...

- Rich